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I make this! (I got into making dyes for all natural tie-dye shirts) It's cool and relatively easy, but it will eat your paper. It's a cool novelty, but not fo

I make this! (I got into making dyes for all natural tie-dye shirts) It's cool and relatively easy, but it will eat your paper. It's a cool novelty, but not for anything you want to store long term.

jgeada 2y ago
Yes, iron gall inks are acidic and best not used on regular paper. But they last pretty well on vellum (eg Book of Kells, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Kells https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Kells, on which all the lettering is done with iron gall inks) Lots of interesting discussion here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/226717-archival-qualities-of-iron-gall-inks/ https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/226717-archiv...
red369 2y ago
Interesting about it being destructive to the paper - the Wikipedia article seemed to describe old manuscripts lasting a long time with the ink. Is it that the paper we have now is less compatible? I'm guessing you might also be into paper, since you're into ink. Do you collect your own galls? The main reason I found iron gall ink fascinating, was that the ink is described as being common and widespread, but made from something I had never heard of - or, at least, paid attention to. I like oak trees and acorns, and I'm quite sure I've never seen a gall. I think if I had, it would seem like an incredible thing for a tree to produce, until I heard the explanation about the wasps. Galls remind me of bagworm moths (1). I saw one for the first time a couple of years ago, and it absolutely felt like encountering an alien creature until I found out what they are. The feeling lasted a few hours too, because I had no idea what name or word to search for. One of the many people I showed my video to recognised it. Edit: I see a sibling comment answered my paper question. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagworm_moth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagworm_moth
- seabass-labrax 2y ago
  > Is it that the paper we have now is less compatible? The article describes how the oxidation, which causes the ink to darken, causes a reaction between tannic acid and these newly created ferric ions. Doesn't that neutralise the acidity? If so, perhaps it is a case of 'survivorship bias' in the old manuscripts which do survive, as they had just the right ratio of tannic acid to iron ions to completely neutralise, whereas the books written with ink containing not enough iron ions would be damaged and discarded.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- adrian_b 2y ago
  As another poster already said, most old manuscripts were not written on paper, but on vellum or another kind of parchment (i.e. on leather), which has a very different chemical behavior from paper. Paper was first used in Europe in the 11th century, by the Arabs. It has spread slowly during the next centuries, but it became really important only about the same time with printing.

I make this! (I got into making dyes for all natural tie-dye shirts) It's cool and relatively easy, but it will eat your paper. It's a cool novelty, but not for anything you want to store long term.

jgeada 2y ago

Yes, iron gall inks are acidic and best not used on regular paper. But they last pretty well on vellum (eg Book of Kells, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Kells https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Kells, on which all the lettering is done with iron gall inks) Lots of interesting discussion here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/226717-archival-qualities-of-iron-gall-inks/ https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/226717-archiv...

red369 2y ago

Interesting about it being destructive to the paper - the Wikipedia article seemed to describe old manuscripts lasting a long time with the ink. Is it that the paper we have now is less compatible? I'm guessing you might also be into paper, since you're into ink. Do you collect your own galls? The main reason I found iron gall ink fascinating, was that the ink is described as being common and widespread, but made from something I had never heard of - or, at least, paid attention to. I like oak trees and acorns, and I'm quite sure I've never seen a gall. I think if I had, it would seem like an incredible thing for a tree to produce, until I heard the explanation about the wasps. Galls remind me of bagworm moths (1). I saw one for the first time a couple of years ago, and it absolutely felt like encountering an alien creature until I found out what they are. The feeling lasted a few hours too, because I had no idea what name or word to search for. One of the many people I showed my video to recognised it. Edit: I see a sibling comment answered my paper question. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagworm_moth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagworm_moth

seabass-labrax 2y ago
> Is it that the paper we have now is less compatible? The article describes how the oxidation, which causes the ink to darken, causes a reaction between tannic acid and these newly created ferric ions. Doesn't that neutralise the acidity? If so, perhaps it is a case of 'survivorship bias' in the old manuscripts which do survive, as they had just the right ratio of tannic acid to iron ions to completely neutralise, whereas the books written with ink containing not enough iron ions would be damaged and discarded.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
adrian_b 2y ago
As another poster already said, most old manuscripts were not written on paper, but on vellum or another kind of parchment (i.e. on leather), which has a very different chemical behavior from paper. Paper was first used in Europe in the 11th century, by the Arabs. It has spread slowly during the next centuries, but it became really important only about the same time with printing.