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> Apple knows this and clearly exhibits it with every product demo. It’s all a story. One that I enjoy. That is true, but I've often seen that misconstrued (no

> Apple knows this and clearly exhibits it with every product demo. It’s all a story. One that I enjoy. That is true, but I've often seen that misconstrued (not by you in your comment) as somehow saying "Oh, Apple's success is just marketing! I can get feature XYZ for much lower elsewhere!" Except that while Apple has generally great marketing, they also have generally great products. There is a ton of hard engineering and design work that goes into making a product that is easy to market in the first place. In fact, what the "it's just marketing" crowd tends to miss is that products are not just a collection of features, but are used to tell stories (or listen to stories) in users' own lives. They want to envision how a product will enrich their experiences, and Apple understands that's what they're selling. In fact, if anything, I think the flop of the Vision Pro (may be quite premature to call it a flop, but I'll put my money on it being a flop) is directly due to the fact that Apple can't tell a story about it. By all accounts it has amazing, cutting edge technology. Except Apple can't tell a good story about what you're actually supposed to do with the thing that people believe and buy in to.

hinkley 2y ago
I also dabble in woodworking. There are some very fancy woodworking tools out there. They do the job better than their cheaper counterparts, but at the end of the day 3/4 of them are still largely a lifestyle thing, fueled by low tolerance mechanical engineering, industrial design, and recycling old designs that existed before quantity trumped quality. Much of that is physics, but some is story, and the word spreading part of the job of selling is all story. If you've ever used a good chisel without a mallet you know the difference between good and cheap. But the margin for some other tools is less pronounced. I was going to use files as an example but there are some pretty crazy rasps out there today that can hog almost as well as a power tool.
bigstrat2003 2y ago
> Except that while Apple has generally great marketing, they also have generally great products. I disagree, and presumably so do the people you're referring to. Apple products are nothing special. They are competently made, but so are lots of brands which charge you a lot less. It really is all about marketing with Apple.
- kelnos 2y ago
  I think it's really the integration between hardware and software, nearly all of which is under Apple's control. Most companies don't do vertical integration anymore, and it shows. It's harder to produce a polished product when the hardware parts come from a bunch of different manufacturers, and you have to fight to get your software to work on it.
kelnos 2y ago
> Except Apple can't tell a good story about what you're actually supposed to do with the [Vision Pro] that people believe and buy in to. The funny thing is that Apple is usually good at waiting to build and sell a product until customers are ready for it and want it (even if they don't realize they are ready and want it). Vision Pro is a still just a cool tech demo. A very cool and very impressive tech demo, but still a tech demo. I don't mean that to say that it can't be a useful product, but Apple built it without a real market for it. Maybe that's ok: maybe they need to build and sell the tech demo now in order to refine the tech so they can get to the actual product, with the real story, that they'll sell 5 or 10 or whatever years from now. Or maybe... yeah, maybe it's just a flop.
- hinkley 2y ago
  They also finish the product to a degree that more pedestrian companies feel is grandstanding and thus dismiss it. Instead of learning about UX sensitivity and the paradox of choice, they write it off as a fluke. A forty+ year fluke at this point. What people “want” and what they will enjoy are rarely the same. Giving them fifty models of laptop is what focus groups think will make customers happy but it just fractures your attention to detail. It only makes a few customers happy. Probably less people than Apple’s market share. My ex used to practically scream at her laptop until I bought her a MacBook. Most expensive present I ever gave but the best investment in peace and quiet.

hinkley 2y ago

I also dabble in woodworking. There are some very fancy woodworking tools out there. They do the job better than their cheaper counterparts, but at the end of the day 3/4 of them are still largely a lifestyle thing, fueled by low tolerance mechanical engineering, industrial design, and recycling old designs that existed before quantity trumped quality. Much of that is physics, but some is story, and the word spreading part of the job of selling is all story. If you've ever used a good chisel without a mallet you know the difference between good and cheap. But the margin for some other tools is less pronounced. I was going to use files as an example but there are some pretty crazy rasps out there today that can hog almost as well as a power tool.

bigstrat2003 2y ago

> Except that while Apple has generally great marketing, they also have generally great products. I disagree, and presumably so do the people you're referring to. Apple products are nothing special. They are competently made, but so are lots of brands which charge you a lot less. It really is all about marketing with Apple.

kelnos 2y ago
I think it's really the integration between hardware and software, nearly all of which is under Apple's control. Most companies don't do vertical integration anymore, and it shows. It's harder to produce a polished product when the hardware parts come from a bunch of different manufacturers, and you have to fight to get your software to work on it.

kelnos 2y ago

> Except Apple can't tell a good story about what you're actually supposed to do with the [Vision Pro] that people believe and buy in to. The funny thing is that Apple is usually good at waiting to build and sell a product until customers are ready for it and want it (even if they don't realize they are ready and want it). Vision Pro is a still just a cool tech demo. A very cool and very impressive tech demo, but still a tech demo. I don't mean that to say that it can't be a useful product, but Apple built it without a real market for it. Maybe that's ok: maybe they need to build and sell the tech demo now in order to refine the tech so they can get to the actual product, with the real story, that they'll sell 5 or 10 or whatever years from now. Or maybe... yeah, maybe it's just a flop.

hinkley 2y ago
They also finish the product to a degree that more pedestrian companies feel is grandstanding and thus dismiss it. Instead of learning about UX sensitivity and the paradox of choice, they write it off as a fluke. A forty+ year fluke at this point. What people “want” and what they will enjoy are rarely the same. Giving them fifty models of laptop is what focus groups think will make customers happy but it just fractures your attention to detail. It only makes a few customers happy. Probably less people than Apple’s market share. My ex used to practically scream at her laptop until I bought her a MacBook. Most expensive present I ever gave but the best investment in peace and quiet.