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I'd like to see progressive fines implemented as well. I'm not sure what factor we should use but I think that it should quickly become economically infeasible

by Teever 2y ago

I'd like to see progressive fines implemented as well. I'm not sure what factor we should use but I think that it should quickly become economically infeasible for anyone to keep reoffending because the cost of separate instances of doing so quickly escalates. Maybe exponentially?

aeturnum 2y ago
The idea of having the fine scale based on how quickly people re-offend is also really interesting! I feel like I worry about...situations where people are pressed into breaking that law out of circumstances and then are extra-harshly punished by the mounting fines? Maybe you combine it with some kind of income-based ceiling or a loss in driving privileges (has its own problems ofc but it is a public danger for someone to always be breaking the law - even if they feel they have no choice).
- Teever 2y ago
  Oh I don't just want this for driving fines but all fines in general.If the point of fines is to serve as a disincentive and to modify the behavior of people then they need to have some teeth to them. People are free to do their own personal cost benefit analysis when they decide whether or not whatever personal circumstance they're in is worth breaking the law, and the law isn't there to give them a pass because their personal analysis on this resulted in them deciding to break the law.
  - ASalazarMX 2y ago
    This could be an incredible revenue stream for law enforcement at all levels, without heavy balances it's almost guaranteed that it will be egregiously abused, like asset forfeiture.
    - Ekaros 2y ago
      Solution really is that money does not go to law enforcement, instead it goes to general budget from which then law enforcement is funded. Law enforcement really should not be able to fund itself by any mechanism.
    - Teever 2y ago
      You could say the same thing about all fines in general or specifically the Swiss and Finish income proportional fines in general. Is there any evidence of egregious behaviour from Swedish and Finnish law enforcement in the manner that you describe?
me_me_me 2y ago
remember when JP Morgan was caught manipulating price of silver making billions off it. They were 'fined' 100m or something. Its like robbing a bank and when caught you need to give 10% back. And also you will be given stern warning to not do it again.

by Teever 2y ago

aeturnum 2y ago

The idea of having the fine scale based on how quickly people re-offend is also really interesting! I feel like I worry about...situations where people are pressed into breaking that law out of circumstances and then are extra-harshly punished by the mounting fines? Maybe you combine it with some kind of income-based ceiling or a loss in driving privileges (has its own problems ofc but it is a public danger for someone to always be breaking the law - even if they feel they have no choice).

Teever 2y ago
Oh I don't just want this for driving fines but all fines in general.If the point of fines is to serve as a disincentive and to modify the behavior of people then they need to have some teeth to them. People are free to do their own personal cost benefit analysis when they decide whether or not whatever personal circumstance they're in is worth breaking the law, and the law isn't there to give them a pass because their personal analysis on this resulted in them deciding to break the law.
- ASalazarMX 2y ago
  This could be an incredible revenue stream for law enforcement at all levels, without heavy balances it's almost guaranteed that it will be egregiously abused, like asset forfeiture.
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    Solution really is that money does not go to law enforcement, instead it goes to general budget from which then law enforcement is funded. Law enforcement really should not be able to fund itself by any mechanism.
  - Teever 2y ago
    You could say the same thing about all fines in general or specifically the Swiss and Finish income proportional fines in general. Is there any evidence of egregious behaviour from Swedish and Finnish law enforcement in the manner that you describe?

me_me_me 2y ago

remember when JP Morgan was caught manipulating price of silver making billions off it. They were 'fined' 100m or something. Its like robbing a bank and when caught you need to give 10% back. And also you will be given stern warning to not do it again.