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I've been wondering about this for YEARS now: WTF happened to Milk Bar in NYC? Based on the taste and quality, it seems like the most egregious case of "sellin

by chubot 2y ago

I've been wondering about this for YEARS now: WTF happened to Milk Bar in NYC? Based on the taste and quality, it seems like the most egregious case of "selling out" I've ever seen. It seems like an overnight change to me David Chang and Christina Tosi worked together, and I remember seeing a bunch of their marketing on Netflix https://rseventures.com/milk-bars-christina-tosi-went-momofuku-employee-bakery-chain-ceo/ https://rseventures.com/milk-bars-christina-tosi-went-momofu... In 2015 the location in East Village was still GREAT. Interesting deserts, seemingly made by hand, with high quality ingredients Then I go back a few years later, and it's this CHAIN and the food is inedible. I take one bite, can't eat it, and throw it away It just tastes like sugary processed food now, like Twinkies or Chips Ahoy or something I also saw Milk Bar products in Whole Foods, bought it, took one bite, and threw it away, and never bought it again It's just weird to me that a chef would let the quality sink so low, so fast. Usually the "founders" care about quality, and are mission-focused I always thought that process took decades, and changes in ownership. (Actually I am re-reading Pollan's account of the "big organic" Cascadian Farms brand now -- another very interesting case of counterculture going mainstream / industrial, but the change was more gradual I think)

geodel 2y ago
As others have alluded too. At this point SC is high on its own supply. Create a food empire, hang out with rich or famous chefs. Create millions of aspiring chumps who'd take his words as gospel. Edit SC -> DC (David Chang)
- apsurd 2y ago
  Who or what is SC?
  - infecto 2y ago
    Typo, DC not SC. David Chang
- detourdog 2y ago
  You want to be chef you have to be in the kitchen.
  - geodel 2y ago
    There is now another category of "Netflix Chef" where one has to work hard in kitchen until they get featured on Netflix series.
    - detourdog 2y ago
      It is almost as if some people want to cook like a chef and some people want been seen as a chef.
light_hue_1 2y ago
They opened a Milk Bar near Harvard and it was total garbage. They were so lazy that they didn't even make anything in Boston. It was all shipped over from NY. Stale and tasteless cubes of nothing wrapped in plastic. Neither Christina Tosi nor David Chang have any integrity. They just peddle whatever garbage they can to people while building their own brand. A year or two ago that Milk Bar location finally died out and was replaced by Joe's Pizza. Another NY chain. But one that is the opposite of Tosi/Chang in every way. Authentic. Careful. Customer-focused. Great NY-style pizza made on the spot with the same ingredients. Joe's is just as good in NY as it is in Boston. Good riddance to Tosi and Chang. I now actively avoid anything associated with them.
- chubot 2y ago
  The stores in Manhattan are also packaged food! They don't make them there either It's basically like they bought some Chips Ahoy from Target and devoted an entire store to reselling it, with prime real estate I mean maybe part of that was a pandemic thing, but I remember thinking how bad it was before the pandemic
paxys 2y ago
Milk Bar only ever worked when it was Christina Tosi's personal baking project. The second they tried to corporatize it, it was done.
- chubot 2y ago
  But why? How is it different than any other bakery? You can open a second location of a bakery and maintain the same quality ... Anecdotally more than 5 locations seems to be a problem (my guess is some kind of management scaling issue like Dunbar's law) But it seems they never went through the phase of 2 or 3 locations, or just quickly zoomed past it into packaged and preserved foods. With the actual stores also selling packaged foods Maybe she had enough friends in the restaurant business to know that managing 2 or 3 locations is probably a hell-ish part of your career (???) i.e. maybe you are doing a lot more work, not getting to actually make any food, and you might not make as much money (e.g. each new store is a big risk I imagine)
  - paxys 2y ago
    Milk bar was never a regular bakery. Its items mostly got popular because of their creativity and uniqueness. But when you scale it out and stop innovating, it's not unique any more.
    - chubot 2y ago
      What was unique about it besides the recipes? You can teach someone else the recipes, and plenty of people know how to bake So I don't see the problem with making 3 stores at a high quality
wahnfrieden 2y ago
I just remember the Saltie owner posting photos of the pavement outside their next door neighbor Milk Bar, being salty about the scores of serving cups and other detritus their customers would leave without the store taking responsibility for cleaning them up
ericmcer 2y ago
Milk bar always seemed like an example of using raw marketing power to convince people something is good. I saw Tosi on Chefs table and it was crazy how generic what she was doing was versus the other chefs on the show. Juxtaposing her with others on the show it felt like a bunch of artists who wouldn't compromise their vision versus a capitalist who was optimizing everything around money.

by chubot 2y ago

geodel 2y ago

As others have alluded too. At this point SC is high on its own supply. Create a food empire, hang out with rich or famous chefs. Create millions of aspiring chumps who'd take his words as gospel. Edit SC -> DC (David Chang)

apsurd 2y ago
Who or what is SC?
- infecto 2y ago
  Typo, DC not SC. David Chang
detourdog 2y ago
You want to be chef you have to be in the kitchen.
- geodel 2y ago
  There is now another category of "Netflix Chef" where one has to work hard in kitchen until they get featured on Netflix series.
  - detourdog 2y ago
    It is almost as if some people want to cook like a chef and some people want been seen as a chef.

light_hue_1 2y ago

They opened a Milk Bar near Harvard and it was total garbage. They were so lazy that they didn't even make anything in Boston. It was all shipped over from NY. Stale and tasteless cubes of nothing wrapped in plastic. Neither Christina Tosi nor David Chang have any integrity. They just peddle whatever garbage they can to people while building their own brand. A year or two ago that Milk Bar location finally died out and was replaced by Joe's Pizza. Another NY chain. But one that is the opposite of Tosi/Chang in every way. Authentic. Careful. Customer-focused. Great NY-style pizza made on the spot with the same ingredients. Joe's is just as good in NY as it is in Boston. Good riddance to Tosi and Chang. I now actively avoid anything associated with them.

chubot 2y ago
The stores in Manhattan are also packaged food! They don't make them there either It's basically like they bought some Chips Ahoy from Target and devoted an entire store to reselling it, with prime real estate I mean maybe part of that was a pandemic thing, but I remember thinking how bad it was before the pandemic

paxys 2y ago

Milk Bar only ever worked when it was Christina Tosi's personal baking project. The second they tried to corporatize it, it was done.

chubot 2y ago
But why? How is it different than any other bakery? You can open a second location of a bakery and maintain the same quality ... Anecdotally more than 5 locations seems to be a problem (my guess is some kind of management scaling issue like Dunbar's law) But it seems they never went through the phase of 2 or 3 locations, or just quickly zoomed past it into packaged and preserved foods. With the actual stores also selling packaged foods Maybe she had enough friends in the restaurant business to know that managing 2 or 3 locations is probably a hell-ish part of your career (???) i.e. maybe you are doing a lot more work, not getting to actually make any food, and you might not make as much money (e.g. each new store is a big risk I imagine)
- paxys 2y ago
  Milk bar was never a regular bakery. Its items mostly got popular because of their creativity and uniqueness. But when you scale it out and stop innovating, it's not unique any more.
  - chubot 2y ago
    What was unique about it besides the recipes? You can teach someone else the recipes, and plenty of people know how to bake So I don't see the problem with making 3 stores at a high quality

wahnfrieden 2y ago

I just remember the Saltie owner posting photos of the pavement outside their next door neighbor Milk Bar, being salty about the scores of serving cups and other detritus their customers would leave without the store taking responsibility for cleaning them up

ericmcer 2y ago

Milk bar always seemed like an example of using raw marketing power to convince people something is good. I saw Tosi on Chefs table and it was crazy how generic what she was doing was versus the other chefs on the show. Juxtaposing her with others on the show it felt like a bunch of artists who wouldn't compromise their vision versus a capitalist who was optimizing everything around money.