4 ms·

It always amazed me how Uber was able to quickly force itself into the most criminal markets (which in poorer countries is typically anything that has to do wit

It always amazed me how Uber was able to quickly force itself into the most criminal markets (which in poorer countries is typically anything that has to do with taxis). But in hindsight, after a quick surprise win worldwide, they were eventually forced out. In Russia, weirdly enough, not by criminals but by a quasi-state company, starting back in 2018. In parts of Mexico, by what seems like outright criminals and collusion. In Turkey, sometimes works, but often seems ignored. Wonder how they were able to launch in complicated markets to begin with.

notyourwork 2y ago
How? Likely bribes. No way around it in parts of the world. Have to grease the wheels of diplomacy.
- haliskerbas 2y ago
  Including the US, but here bribes are legal, it's called lobbying!
  - Log_out_ 2y ago
    actually not comparable in price and scale. lobbying is cheap and limited, while bribes often become buisness ending very fast .
    - hulitu 2y ago
      > lobbying is cheap I heard Google and Microsoft spent bilions on EU lobby.
- infamouscow 2y ago
  The places that don't have bribery call it lobbying. That way, the politicians can look down on other governments for the lack of sophistication in their corruption.
  - Y_Y 2y ago
    > The places that don't have bribery This is an interesting sci-fi premise, but hard to imagine.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > places that don't have bribery call it lobbying You're describing people without a civics education. Bribes (direct or promised after term), campaign contributions (direct and via PACs) and lobbying (direct and paid) are categorically distinct.
    - PeterCorless 2y ago
      Reminder a certain political group are trying to make bribery legal in the U.S. by calling it a "tip."
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Reminder a certain political group are trying to make bribery legal in the U.S. by calling it a "tip" Source? (My search keeps turning up Tip O'Neill.)
        AnimalMuppet 2y ago
        I suspect they are referring to the recent US Supreme Court decision.
        PeterCorless 2y ago
        Yes. Two issues, really. First, high wealth individuals could accept "tips" to get paid millions without any tax. And you could "tip" a Congressperson and it would not be called a bribe. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/sen-ted-cruzs-no-tax-on-tips-act-does-little-for-low-and-moderate-wage-workers-but-opens-door-to-tax-abuse-by-wealthy/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/sen-ted-cruzs-no-ta... https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2024/07/us-supreme-court-holds-that-federal-bribery-law-does-not-criminalize-gratuities https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2024/07/us-sup...
whalesalad 2y ago
> not by criminals but by a quasi-state company corporate would like you to find the difference between these two photos
_zoltan_ 2y ago
In Hungary by the taxi lobby first and then they let them "back", but there is only a single company that serves taxis via Uber so it's only a front end.
- lxgr 2y ago
  Are fares pre-calculated or dynamic/metered? I couldn't care less as what my ride is regulated or operated, but I do appreciate the fare being known upfront. (For what it's worth, Uber is quickly eroding this advantage themselves by automatically charging a surcharge in case a driver takes a more circuitous route, just like in good old taxi days.)
mikeodds 2y ago
Had 3 Ubers in a row spoofing gps location trying to pickup a ride at Istanbul departures, but then sending increasingly cryptic, once you are here walk 500m here directions one by one. 1 even started the trip without me in the car and said it was an accident. Uber support didn’t care about that or the GPS spoofing.
- obviouslynew 2y ago
  Uber engineering does, there is extensive work that goes into the app to ensure drivers aren't GPS spoofing or that an actual ride is occurring. I.E. Check the accelerometer or gyro. That said theres a natural tension between making the app accessible to drivers and locking it down to protect riders. I.E. Disabling the app if your phone is rooted/jailbroken. But again you are limited to privacy, the api's for the devices you have to support and managing how accessible the app is.
- tamimio 2y ago
  It wasn’t Uber but taxis. When I visited Istanbul a while ago, the taxi drivers were creative in how they scammed people. Some purposely took a longer route to the destination to charge more, while others altered the meter so it showed almost double the fare. I discovered this because the same trip cost half using another taxi. Others asked for an upfront price and ignored the meter.
  - agtech_andy 2y ago
    I lived in Turkey for over 3 years. It is really sad how taxis were by far the worst part. When Uber came to Ankara, it was a massive improvement in my quality of life. In Istanbul, there are a few things to watch out for but Uber is still a million times better than calling a random taxi. Part of it is because taxis in Istanbul are surprisingly cheap and it encourages bad behavior. During peak times in the most busy places, Uber drivers may cancel on you if the ride is short. Whatever happens, Uber support in Turkey has been very responsive to me. So I have to give them credit for that.
    - indoordin0saur 2y ago
paxys 2y ago
Lots of money (coming from VCs) and willingness to play as dirty as your competitors is usually a winning combo.
egorfine 2y ago
> It always amazed me how Uber was able to quickly force itself into the most criminal markets We had a horrendous taxi market in Ukraine, before Uber. We knew Uber is coming for about a couple years prior to the first ride, so the market decided to prepare. Cut to Uber opening in Kiev: they have managed not only to get the worst drivers (drug addicts, drunk people, outright fake accounts, etc), but they have pushed the bar far lower. There weren't a taxi service as bad as Uber ever before. OTOH, one of the previously worst services decided to preemptively compete with Uber and became one of the best I have ever used. Perfect cars, excellent drivers, top-notch service and support, incredibly, unbelievably good. So there's that.

notyourwork 2y ago

How? Likely bribes. No way around it in parts of the world. Have to grease the wheels of diplomacy.

haliskerbas 2y ago
Including the US, but here bribes are legal, it's called lobbying!
- Log_out_ 2y ago
  actually not comparable in price and scale. lobbying is cheap and limited, while bribes often become buisness ending very fast .
  - hulitu 2y ago
    > lobbying is cheap I heard Google and Microsoft spent bilions on EU lobby.
infamouscow 2y ago
The places that don't have bribery call it lobbying. That way, the politicians can look down on other governments for the lack of sophistication in their corruption.
- Y_Y 2y ago
  > The places that don't have bribery This is an interesting sci-fi premise, but hard to imagine.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > places that don't have bribery call it lobbying You're describing people without a civics education. Bribes (direct or promised after term), campaign contributions (direct and via PACs) and lobbying (direct and paid) are categorically distinct.
  - PeterCorless 2y ago
    Reminder a certain political group are trying to make bribery legal in the U.S. by calling it a "tip."
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Reminder a certain political group are trying to make bribery legal in the U.S. by calling it a "tip" Source? (My search keeps turning up Tip O'Neill.)
      - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
        I suspect they are referring to the recent US Supreme Court decision.
        PeterCorless 2y ago
        Yes. Two issues, really. First, high wealth individuals could accept "tips" to get paid millions without any tax. And you could "tip" a Congressperson and it would not be called a bribe. https://www.americanprogress.org/article/sen-ted-cruzs-no-tax-on-tips-act-does-little-for-low-and-moderate-wage-workers-but-opens-door-to-tax-abuse-by-wealthy/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/sen-ted-cruzs-no-ta... https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2024/07/us-supreme-court-holds-that-federal-bribery-law-does-not-criminalize-gratuities https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2024/07/us-sup...

whalesalad 2y ago

> not by criminals but by a quasi-state company corporate would like you to find the difference between these two photos

_zoltan_ 2y ago

In Hungary by the taxi lobby first and then they let them "back", but there is only a single company that serves taxis via Uber so it's only a front end.

lxgr 2y ago
Are fares pre-calculated or dynamic/metered? I couldn't care less as what my ride is regulated or operated, but I do appreciate the fare being known upfront. (For what it's worth, Uber is quickly eroding this advantage themselves by automatically charging a surcharge in case a driver takes a more circuitous route, just like in good old taxi days.)

mikeodds 2y ago

Had 3 Ubers in a row spoofing gps location trying to pickup a ride at Istanbul departures, but then sending increasingly cryptic, once you are here walk 500m here directions one by one. 1 even started the trip without me in the car and said it was an accident. Uber support didn’t care about that or the GPS spoofing.

obviouslynew 2y ago
Uber engineering does, there is extensive work that goes into the app to ensure drivers aren't GPS spoofing or that an actual ride is occurring. I.E. Check the accelerometer or gyro. That said theres a natural tension between making the app accessible to drivers and locking it down to protect riders. I.E. Disabling the app if your phone is rooted/jailbroken. But again you are limited to privacy, the api's for the devices you have to support and managing how accessible the app is.
tamimio 2y ago
It wasn’t Uber but taxis. When I visited Istanbul a while ago, the taxi drivers were creative in how they scammed people. Some purposely took a longer route to the destination to charge more, while others altered the meter so it showed almost double the fare. I discovered this because the same trip cost half using another taxi. Others asked for an upfront price and ignored the meter.
- agtech_andy 2y ago
  I lived in Turkey for over 3 years. It is really sad how taxis were by far the worst part. When Uber came to Ankara, it was a massive improvement in my quality of life. In Istanbul, there are a few things to watch out for but Uber is still a million times better than calling a random taxi. Part of it is because taxis in Istanbul are surprisingly cheap and it encourages bad behavior. During peak times in the most busy places, Uber drivers may cancel on you if the ride is short. Whatever happens, Uber support in Turkey has been very responsive to me. So I have to give them credit for that.
  - indoordin0saur 2y ago

paxys 2y ago

Lots of money (coming from VCs) and willingness to play as dirty as your competitors is usually a winning combo.

egorfine 2y ago

> It always amazed me how Uber was able to quickly force itself into the most criminal markets We had a horrendous taxi market in Ukraine, before Uber. We knew Uber is coming for about a couple years prior to the first ride, so the market decided to prepare. Cut to Uber opening in Kiev: they have managed not only to get the worst drivers (drug addicts, drunk people, outright fake accounts, etc), but they have pushed the bar far lower. There weren't a taxi service as bad as Uber ever before. OTOH, one of the previously worst services decided to preemptively compete with Uber and became one of the best I have ever used. Perfect cars, excellent drivers, top-notch service and support, incredibly, unbelievably good. So there's that.