5 ms·

Only somewhat related, but wasn't there a DIY biohacking[0] craze a few years ago, with people implanting rare earth magnets into the tips of their pinky finger

Only somewhat related, but wasn't there a DIY biohacking[0] craze a few years ago, with people implanting rare earth magnets into the tips of their pinky fingers, waiting for the nerve endings to heal around the implant, and then supposedly gaining a 'sixth sense' of being able to detect the flow of current via their bionic pinky? Is that still a thing? [0]: https://www.wired.com/story/diy-biohacking/ https://www.wired.com/story/diy-biohacking/

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Gracana 2y ago
I recall Zoe Quinn wrote about having that done ~10 years ago. Article's still up on her site, it's a good read: http://www.beesgo.biz/magnet.html http://www.beesgo.biz/magnet.html
- gxs 2y ago
  What am obnoxious mobile site you’ve linked to - unusable because of a persistent floating graphic over the middle of the screen.
zitterbewegung 2y ago
Yes, there was but the magnets can break and I believe getting them removed is hard.
Spivak 2y ago
Given how well-trodden putting hardware in humans is, I'm surprised this wouldn't be a <60 minute surgery to affix the magnet to your bone. Then it wouldn't look so weird pulling on your skin. Then again, the non-invasive version is wearing a magnetic ring, $1.34 on Aliexpress.
- ramses0 2y ago
  Similarly: supposedly superglue a magnet to your fingernail.
  - carpdiem 2y ago
    I tried this once. There was no convincing effect for being able to "detect by feel" AC currents, but you could definitely notice magnetic materials. Maybe the most fun, though, was just playing around and "picking up" paperclips and tiny screws by flicking my finger at them.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  Having worked in orthopedics quite a bit, and hanging out with my wife who's a foot and ankle surgeon, there aren't many ways you could attach something to a bone that wouldn't cause problems. Other than the (significantly large, true!) hard mineral portion, bones comprise a lot of types of living tissue and you don't want to make a hole in them or their periosteum wrapper unless you absolutely must. The least bad approach might be something like a zip tie that you could carefully work around the bone, but even that would have ridges to irritate tissues and semi-enclosed spaces for bacteria to turn into a strip mall. I highly recommend just getting that magnetic ring instead.
  - fudged71 2y ago
    Based on a quick search, a small gap (less than 500 μm) between the implant and bone can actually support osseointegration by allowing trabeculae to form. 3D printed titanium has been used a lot for osseointegration.
    - kstrauser 2y ago
      Quite possibly, but 1) you better be A-OK with having whatever it is permanently grow into your bone such that you'd have to carve it out with chisels or saws, and 2) you still need to hold it there long enough for that to happen, ideally without whatever mechanism you're using for that also being incorporated (like, literally incorporated).
      - sonofhans 2y ago
        > incorporated This took me longer than it should have. Nicely put.
      - yial 2y ago
        Titanium encourages / supports due to its structure human bones growing into it. This does not happen as easily or frequently with stainless steel. (There is still a risk of spontaneous rejection however )
  - ASalazarMX 2y ago
- crumpled 2y ago
  I think the pulling on the skin part is essential to the feeling things part. I don't think people will get any sensation if the magnet is held stationary. I'm only guessing.
cmsjustin 2y ago
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/17l9BucbXec https://www.youtube.com/shorts/17l9BucbXec
fragmede 2y ago
http://dangerousthings.com http://dangerousthings.com graduated to selling implantable rfid u2f tokens.
Onavo 2y ago
You can experience the same thing by supergluing a magnet to your pinky.
surfingdino 2y ago
Must me useful for emergency proctologists. Neodymium magnets would probably work better for such applications.
shagie 2y ago
> ... with people implanting rare earth magnets into the tips of their pinky fingers ... Imagine the joy of getting an MRI and forgetting about that bit of biohacking.
- markx2 2y ago
  I had an MRI. I have tragus piercings where the rings are titanium but the balls were steel. It was missed that they were there. I have surgical steel self-done implants in each hand. I have a magnet in one of my fingertips I have NFC chips in both hands. I did not explode, nothing felt hot, the only sensation was my tragus piercings wobbling slightly. This whole MRI thing ....
  - hwillis 2y ago
    What matters is the field gradient. The field inside the core of the MRI is pretty homogenous, so if the metal is in there when it's switching on/off then it's fine. They will put a precautionary shield over embedded shrapnel, but it's not a big deal- it'll just wiggle a bit, and can cause some image distortion. Heating would be caused by imaging gradients, which are very small precise fields layered over the main field. Imaging gradients can switch very rapidly, which is what could cause heating, but they're so weak (fridge magnet range) that it's a nonissue. Likewise if you're more than about a meter away, the gradient has also dropped off and forces are much smaller. Imagine a bubble around the entrance to the core: that's the danger spot where field gradients can be >3 T/m. Fun fact: take B^2/(2*u0) and you get units of Pascals. Magnetic pressure and fluid pressure can be thought about pretty similarly, except that free space is very impermeable and things like iron instead act like "holes" that can create strong flows between areas of different magnetic pressure. You can have a 3 T field separated from you by air, but if you stick a steel rod into it suddenly both ends of the rod will be at 3 T. 3 T works out to about 500 psi of magnetic pressure. If you have a small, 5 mm iron sphere in a 3 T/m gradient, the pressure difference across it is only ~2.5 psi. Size matters a LOT. 2.5 psi may be a slight tug; 50 psi may pull a wire straight through you. And 10 psi may be fine when it's embedded in you already, but given a distance to accelerate it can go pretty fast.
  - 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Gracana 2y ago

I recall Zoe Quinn wrote about having that done ~10 years ago. Article's still up on her site, it's a good read: http://www.beesgo.biz/magnet.html http://www.beesgo.biz/magnet.html

gxs 2y ago
What am obnoxious mobile site you’ve linked to - unusable because of a persistent floating graphic over the middle of the screen.

zitterbewegung 2y ago

Yes, there was but the magnets can break and I believe getting them removed is hard.

Spivak 2y ago

Given how well-trodden putting hardware in humans is, I'm surprised this wouldn't be a <60 minute surgery to affix the magnet to your bone. Then it wouldn't look so weird pulling on your skin. Then again, the non-invasive version is wearing a magnetic ring, $1.34 on Aliexpress.

ramses0 2y ago
Similarly: supposedly superglue a magnet to your fingernail.
- carpdiem 2y ago
  I tried this once. There was no convincing effect for being able to "detect by feel" AC currents, but you could definitely notice magnetic materials. Maybe the most fun, though, was just playing around and "picking up" paperclips and tiny screws by flicking my finger at them.
kstrauser 2y ago
Having worked in orthopedics quite a bit, and hanging out with my wife who's a foot and ankle surgeon, there aren't many ways you could attach something to a bone that wouldn't cause problems. Other than the (significantly large, true!) hard mineral portion, bones comprise a lot of types of living tissue and you don't want to make a hole in them or their periosteum wrapper unless you absolutely must. The least bad approach might be something like a zip tie that you could carefully work around the bone, but even that would have ridges to irritate tissues and semi-enclosed spaces for bacteria to turn into a strip mall. I highly recommend just getting that magnetic ring instead.
- fudged71 2y ago
  Based on a quick search, a small gap (less than 500 μm) between the implant and bone can actually support osseointegration by allowing trabeculae to form. 3D printed titanium has been used a lot for osseointegration.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    Quite possibly, but 1) you better be A-OK with having whatever it is permanently grow into your bone such that you'd have to carve it out with chisels or saws, and 2) you still need to hold it there long enough for that to happen, ideally without whatever mechanism you're using for that also being incorporated (like, literally incorporated).
    - sonofhans 2y ago
      > incorporated This took me longer than it should have. Nicely put.
    - yial 2y ago
      Titanium encourages / supports due to its structure human bones growing into it. This does not happen as easily or frequently with stainless steel. (There is still a risk of spontaneous rejection however )
- ASalazarMX 2y ago
crumpled 2y ago
I think the pulling on the skin part is essential to the feeling things part. I don't think people will get any sensation if the magnet is held stationary. I'm only guessing.

cmsjustin 2y ago

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/17l9BucbXec https://www.youtube.com/shorts/17l9BucbXec

fragmede 2y ago

http://dangerousthings.com http://dangerousthings.com graduated to selling implantable rfid u2f tokens.

Onavo 2y ago

You can experience the same thing by supergluing a magnet to your pinky.

surfingdino 2y ago

Must me useful for emergency proctologists. Neodymium magnets would probably work better for such applications.

shagie 2y ago

> ... with people implanting rare earth magnets into the tips of their pinky fingers ... Imagine the joy of getting an MRI and forgetting about that bit of biohacking.

markx2 2y ago
I had an MRI. I have tragus piercings where the rings are titanium but the balls were steel. It was missed that they were there. I have surgical steel self-done implants in each hand. I have a magnet in one of my fingertips I have NFC chips in both hands. I did not explode, nothing felt hot, the only sensation was my tragus piercings wobbling slightly. This whole MRI thing ....
- hwillis 2y ago
  What matters is the field gradient. The field inside the core of the MRI is pretty homogenous, so if the metal is in there when it's switching on/off then it's fine. They will put a precautionary shield over embedded shrapnel, but it's not a big deal- it'll just wiggle a bit, and can cause some image distortion. Heating would be caused by imaging gradients, which are very small precise fields layered over the main field. Imaging gradients can switch very rapidly, which is what could cause heating, but they're so weak (fridge magnet range) that it's a nonissue. Likewise if you're more than about a meter away, the gradient has also dropped off and forces are much smaller. Imagine a bubble around the entrance to the core: that's the danger spot where field gradients can be >3 T/m. Fun fact: take B^2/(2*u0) and you get units of Pascals. Magnetic pressure and fluid pressure can be thought about pretty similarly, except that free space is very impermeable and things like iron instead act like "holes" that can create strong flows between areas of different magnetic pressure. You can have a 3 T field separated from you by air, but if you stick a steel rod into it suddenly both ends of the rod will be at 3 T. 3 T works out to about 500 psi of magnetic pressure. If you have a small, 5 mm iron sphere in a 3 T/m gradient, the pressure difference across it is only ~2.5 psi. Size matters a LOT. 2.5 psi may be a slight tug; 50 psi may pull a wire straight through you. And 10 psi may be fine when it's embedded in you already, but given a distance to accelerate it can go pretty fast.
- 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]