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I think the "safer" argument is moot because as a society a clear choice has been made where we preference convenience of the individual over the safety of the

I think the "safer" argument is moot because as a society a clear choice has been made where we preference convenience of the individual over the safety of the community. If safety was the key concern for travelling by car, highways would have a 30mph limit, cars would require yearly inspection (common in Europe), and city centres would be car-free. Making the "look how safe we are" argument in order to garner support seems like a fools errand.

giantg2 2y ago
"cars would require yearly inspection" Many states have yearly inspections too. The research seems mixed and does not show strong support that inspections reduce mechanical failure related crashes.
- colonelspace 2y ago
  My intuition tells me that there are quite a lot of dangerous cars on the roads in states where it's a free-for-all, so I'd be interested in the research you're referring to. If it's just an annual emissions test (as I assume many are, but I'm not well informed), then there's unlikely to be any significant prevention of mechanical failure on the road.
  - distortedsignal 2y ago
    I have family in Virginia, and yearly inspections take into account frame damage, brake wear, and other critical components. California (where I live) has every-other-year emissions tests, and that's it. EDIT: There's a pretty comprehensive list on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States#Require_periodic_vehicle_safety_inspections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_Unit... EDIT 2: A summary: Passenger vehicle inspection timeframe: Annually: Delaware, Hawaii, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Texas, Vermont, Virginia Biennially: Missouri, Rhode Island, West Virginia On transfer (sale or import from other jurisdiction): Kentucky, Maryland, Nebraska
  - giantg2 2y ago
    You are right that some of the issue could be inspection quality, although I am talking about safety inspections and not emissions. The research that I saw before seemed to indicate that mechanical failures are rare these days and contribute to a very small number of crashes. Here is an overview with some links. https://www.theamericanconsumer.org/2019/06/do-mandatory-vehicle-inspections-really-make-us-safer/ https://www.theamericanconsumer.org/2019/06/do-mandatory-veh...
    - colonelspace 2y ago
      Be that as it may, I think the point still stands that safety is actually not the primary concern when it comes to how we decide what is acceptable on the roads. As a society, we tacitly accept significant death and injury every year because making the changes to avoid said death and injury would render the roads unfit for actually transporting people at the speed and volume that society and the economy require. There are other options, for example mass public transport that (as far as I'm aware) is much safer than road travel, but the US seems unable to to invest in it seriously for whatever reason.
      - giantg2 2y ago
        "Be that as it may, I think the point still stands that safety is actually not the primary concern when it comes to how we decide what is acceptable on the roads." It is the primary concern being the most important factor in determining regulations. It simply isn't the only factor. It's a balance between safety and utility with the goal of reasonable safety. But yes, absolute safety is never the goal.

giantg2 2y ago

"cars would require yearly inspection" Many states have yearly inspections too. The research seems mixed and does not show strong support that inspections reduce mechanical failure related crashes.

colonelspace 2y ago
My intuition tells me that there are quite a lot of dangerous cars on the roads in states where it's a free-for-all, so I'd be interested in the research you're referring to. If it's just an annual emissions test (as I assume many are, but I'm not well informed), then there's unlikely to be any significant prevention of mechanical failure on the road.
- distortedsignal 2y ago
  I have family in Virginia, and yearly inspections take into account frame damage, brake wear, and other critical components. California (where I live) has every-other-year emissions tests, and that's it. EDIT: There's a pretty comprehensive list on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States#Require_periodic_vehicle_safety_inspections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_Unit... EDIT 2: A summary: Passenger vehicle inspection timeframe: Annually: Delaware, Hawaii, Louisiana, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Texas, Vermont, Virginia Biennially: Missouri, Rhode Island, West Virginia On transfer (sale or import from other jurisdiction): Kentucky, Maryland, Nebraska
- giantg2 2y ago
  You are right that some of the issue could be inspection quality, although I am talking about safety inspections and not emissions. The research that I saw before seemed to indicate that mechanical failures are rare these days and contribute to a very small number of crashes. Here is an overview with some links. https://www.theamericanconsumer.org/2019/06/do-mandatory-vehicle-inspections-really-make-us-safer/ https://www.theamericanconsumer.org/2019/06/do-mandatory-veh...
  - colonelspace 2y ago
    Be that as it may, I think the point still stands that safety is actually not the primary concern when it comes to how we decide what is acceptable on the roads. As a society, we tacitly accept significant death and injury every year because making the changes to avoid said death and injury would render the roads unfit for actually transporting people at the speed and volume that society and the economy require. There are other options, for example mass public transport that (as far as I'm aware) is much safer than road travel, but the US seems unable to to invest in it seriously for whatever reason.
    - giantg2 2y ago
      "Be that as it may, I think the point still stands that safety is actually not the primary concern when it comes to how we decide what is acceptable on the roads." It is the primary concern being the most important factor in determining regulations. It simply isn't the only factor. It's a balance between safety and utility with the goal of reasonable safety. But yes, absolute safety is never the goal.