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> it's a cost worth paying because it improves the user experience so much for tons of folks. You can have the benefit by making it a flag while also maintaini

> it's a cost worth paying because it improves the user experience so much for tons of folks. You can have the benefit by making it a flag while also maintaining minimal surprise. > if the defaults were the same as grep, it would be removing the most visible innovation! At the cost of increased surprise and decreased utility. I think you're going to disagree with the utility part, but you have all the utility when the defaults are off and you need flags to turn features on. There a reason core utils have the defaults as simple. That's a feature but a bug. > now would be a massive breaking change You're right, it would be a big change. I'm not sure how breaking, but it would be a big change and increase surprise of users which I'm against. I'm not asking that you change it. Damage is done. But I don't think you need to double down on saying this was the right way to do things. You built a tool for things you needed, it got popular, and didn't expect it to get as far of a reach as it did. That's great! But it's also not surprising what are advantages to you are disadvantages to others.

burntsushi 2y ago
> You can have the benefit by making it a flag while also maintaining minimal surprise. You're ignoring the benefits of good defaults. So no, I strongly disagree. Your approach does not give the same benefit. > At the cost of increased surprise and decreased utility. I specifically and explicitly acknowledged it as a cost. > But I don't think you need to double down on saying this was the right way to do things. I 100% believe it was the right way to go. As in, it is my opinion that it is a better user experience overall. More explicitly, if I could go back in time, I would make exactly the same design choice even knowing what I know now. > You built a tool for things you needed I didn't build it just for me. ripgrep started out as a tool to benchmark the regex crate. But when I noticed it was as fast as GNU grep in common cases, I decided to turn it into a tool for others to use. At this point, I specifically chose the design I did not just because of its impact on me, but the impact that older tools with a similar design (ack and ag) had on untold legions of programmers. I thought it was the better UX then and I think it is the better UX now. > But it's also not surprising what are advantages to you are disadvantages to others. I don't understand why you're so focused on "surprise." I'm not surprised at all by anything you said. And this insistence on ignoring my acknowledgment of my design having a cost is pretty frustrating.
- godelski 2y ago
  > You're ignoring the benefits of good defaults. I am not https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41515601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41515601

burntsushi 2y ago

> You can have the benefit by making it a flag while also maintaining minimal surprise. You're ignoring the benefits of good defaults. So no, I strongly disagree. Your approach does not give the same benefit. > At the cost of increased surprise and decreased utility. I specifically and explicitly acknowledged it as a cost. > But I don't think you need to double down on saying this was the right way to do things. I 100% believe it was the right way to go. As in, it is my opinion that it is a better user experience overall. More explicitly, if I could go back in time, I would make exactly the same design choice even knowing what I know now. > You built a tool for things you needed I didn't build it just for me. ripgrep started out as a tool to benchmark the regex crate. But when I noticed it was as fast as GNU grep in common cases, I decided to turn it into a tool for others to use. At this point, I specifically chose the design I did not just because of its impact on me, but the impact that older tools with a similar design (ack and ag) had on untold legions of programmers. I thought it was the better UX then and I think it is the better UX now. > But it's also not surprising what are advantages to you are disadvantages to others. I don't understand why you're so focused on "surprise." I'm not surprised at all by anything you said. And this insistence on ignoring my acknowledgment of my design having a cost is pretty frustrating.

godelski 2y ago
> You're ignoring the benefits of good defaults. I am not https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41515601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41515601