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If the markup is not semantically a table, then CSS grid is probably the correct approach. If the content really is a table, then it is very hard to imagine how

If the markup is not semantically a table, then CSS grid is probably the correct approach. If the content really is a table, then it is very hard to imagine how making an entire row into a link could be meaningful. In the GitHub table, for example, does the author really think that clicking under Author should link to the PR, and not to the author themselves? In practice, most tables with each row being a resource have a single column which is the meaningful one to be a link (e.g. the title or name of the resource).

betenoire 2y ago
And when the bulk of the page is the table, it is very obnoxious to click into the window to focus, (or unfocus an input), and suddenly you are whisked away to another page
eyelidlessness 2y ago
> If the content really is a table, then it is very hard to imagine how making an entire row into a link could be meaningful. There are many “skin on a database” type use cases where it can be valuable to present information that’s both tabular (eg summary of columnar information for multiple rows) and navigable (eg to individual row details, edit interface, etc). There are also many classic (non-web) interfaces with conceptually similar prior art. One that immediately comes to mind is music players, where it’s common to present song list data as tabular, and allow selection of the full row. These presentations are relatively out of popular usage… but I think that would make them more appealing to a HN audience, which tends to skew heavily in the direction that older UI paradigms were more usable.
tshaddox 2y ago
> If the content really is a table, then it is very hard to imagine how making an entire row into a link could be meaningful. While not a link, each file in a MacOS Finder List view is selectable view a single click target that encompasses the entire table row. It's definitely a table, and the entire row is a click target. Is that also odd, or is the _link_ part of it the thing you specifically find odd?
- extra88 2y ago
  The Finder list view is not a table, you can't select any of the data other than the name. I also don't think you can keyboard navigate the data by column but I can't check that right now.
  - tshaddox 2y ago
    I’d say it’s definitely a table. It has configurable columns which you can sort by. I don’t think “table” implies being able to edit cells or navigate by cells, since that’s certainly not how HTML tables work by default.
    - extra88 2y ago
      I didn't mention editing, only selecting. A screen reader can absolutely navigate tables by cells, by row and by column. But my mistake, VoiceOver calls Finder's list view a table and can navigate vertically in a column and you can navigate vertically without VoiceOver if you enable Full Keyboard Access (FKA).

betenoire 2y ago

And when the bulk of the page is the table, it is very obnoxious to click into the window to focus, (or unfocus an input), and suddenly you are whisked away to another page

eyelidlessness 2y ago

> If the content really is a table, then it is very hard to imagine how making an entire row into a link could be meaningful. There are many “skin on a database” type use cases where it can be valuable to present information that’s both tabular (eg summary of columnar information for multiple rows) and navigable (eg to individual row details, edit interface, etc). There are also many classic (non-web) interfaces with conceptually similar prior art. One that immediately comes to mind is music players, where it’s common to present song list data as tabular, and allow selection of the full row. These presentations are relatively out of popular usage… but I think that would make them more appealing to a HN audience, which tends to skew heavily in the direction that older UI paradigms were more usable.

tshaddox 2y ago

> If the content really is a table, then it is very hard to imagine how making an entire row into a link could be meaningful. While not a link, each file in a MacOS Finder List view is selectable view a single click target that encompasses the entire table row. It's definitely a table, and the entire row is a click target. Is that also odd, or is the _link_ part of it the thing you specifically find odd?

extra88 2y ago
The Finder list view is not a table, you can't select any of the data other than the name. I also don't think you can keyboard navigate the data by column but I can't check that right now.
- tshaddox 2y ago
  I’d say it’s definitely a table. It has configurable columns which you can sort by. I don’t think “table” implies being able to edit cells or navigate by cells, since that’s certainly not how HTML tables work by default.
  - extra88 2y ago
    I didn't mention editing, only selecting. A screen reader can absolutely navigate tables by cells, by row and by column. But my mistake, VoiceOver calls Finder's list view a table and can navigate vertically in a column and you can navigate vertically without VoiceOver if you enable Full Keyboard Access (FKA).