4 ms·

I agree with everything you've said here. The question is, what can really be done about it?

tokai 2y ago
Dig him up and put his corpse on trial. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod
- GordonS 2y ago
  Lol, I meant what can we do about the CIA destroying the entire world, piece by piece... not specifically Kissinger.
jmyeet 2y ago
The CIA is a symptom rather than the problem. The CIA simply reflects US foreign policy. This isn't a political issue either because you'd be hard-pressed to find a difference between Democratic and Republican administrations when it comes to foreign policy. The so-called War on Terror and the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq persisted through 4 presidents, 2 from each party. Both parties are neoliberals. Abrahm Lincoln [1]: > Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. sounds an awful lot like Karl Marx and the Labor Theory of Value [2]. So what happened? The two world wars massively increased US wealth, power and influence [3] and there was also the Red Scare, particularly after WW2 (although there were concerns about communists prior to that). The Red Scare (and Reagan in particular) destroyed the labor movement in the US. Now we people who champion tax cuts for Jeff Bezos. That's how successful the propaganda has been. What's clear is the capitalists will side with fascists to destroy socialists and communists. Every time. Fascism is capitalism in crisis. Why do I bring all this up? Because when you make a materialist analysis of historical events, you see the US acting in the interests of capital owners every time. So after WW2, with the red Scare, who was good at fighting communists? Nazis obviously. So is it any surprise that Nazis ended up in the command structure of NATO? Not in the slightest. So there's no reforming the CIA in the current system. The entire system is corrupt. And the only antidote is class consciousness and class solidarity. Any polarization you see in modern politics is merely a tool to prevent class solidarity by workers. Racism was fanned in Reconstruction to avoid unity between freed slaves and poor white people. Race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, the middle class (as distinct from the "lower class"), whatever it is. There's always some manufactured culture war nonsense to keep people divided. Until people realize they have more in common with their fellow worker than they do the guy who owns the warehouse they work in, nothing will change. [1]:https://www.cooperative-individualism.org/lincoln-abraham_on-labor-and-capital-1861.htm https://www.cooperative-individualism.org/lincoln-abraham_on... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value [3]: https://archive.is/QxfjL https://archive.is/QxfjL
- GordonS 2y ago
  I think this is a sound analysis, if rather depressing! I really just can't see how this ever changes. You are right that the Dems and Republicans are two cheeks of the same arse - but worse, they don't even play fair within their own rules; just look at the shenanigans they've been undertaking to keep Jill Stein's Green party underfunded and off the ballot!

Dig him up and put his corpse on trial. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadaver_Synod

GordonS 2y ago
Lol, I meant what can we do about the CIA destroying the entire world, piece by piece... not specifically Kissinger.

jmyeet 2y ago

The CIA is a symptom rather than the problem. The CIA simply reflects US foreign policy. This isn't a political issue either because you'd be hard-pressed to find a difference between Democratic and Republican administrations when it comes to foreign policy. The so-called War on Terror and the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq persisted through 4 presidents, 2 from each party. Both parties are neoliberals. Abrahm Lincoln [1]: > Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. sounds an awful lot like Karl Marx and the Labor Theory of Value [2]. So what happened? The two world wars massively increased US wealth, power and influence [3] and there was also the Red Scare, particularly after WW2 (although there were concerns about communists prior to that). The Red Scare (and Reagan in particular) destroyed the labor movement in the US. Now we people who champion tax cuts for Jeff Bezos. That's how successful the propaganda has been. What's clear is the capitalists will side with fascists to destroy socialists and communists. Every time. Fascism is capitalism in crisis. Why do I bring all this up? Because when you make a materialist analysis of historical events, you see the US acting in the interests of capital owners every time. So after WW2, with the red Scare, who was good at fighting communists? Nazis obviously. So is it any surprise that Nazis ended up in the command structure of NATO? Not in the slightest. So there's no reforming the CIA in the current system. The entire system is corrupt. And the only antidote is class consciousness and class solidarity. Any polarization you see in modern politics is merely a tool to prevent class solidarity by workers. Racism was fanned in Reconstruction to avoid unity between freed slaves and poor white people. Race, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, the middle class (as distinct from the "lower class"), whatever it is. There's always some manufactured culture war nonsense to keep people divided. Until people realize they have more in common with their fellow worker than they do the guy who owns the warehouse they work in, nothing will change. [1]:https://www.cooperative-individualism.org/lincoln-abraham_on-labor-and-capital-1861.htm https://www.cooperative-individualism.org/lincoln-abraham_on... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value [3]: https://archive.is/QxfjL https://archive.is/QxfjL

GordonS 2y ago
I think this is a sound analysis, if rather depressing! I really just can't see how this ever changes. You are right that the Dems and Republicans are two cheeks of the same arse - but worse, they don't even play fair within their own rules; just look at the shenanigans they've been undertaking to keep Jill Stein's Green party underfunded and off the ballot!