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Let’s all remember that the vast majority of programmers are not mathematicians, nor logicians, nor authors, we are tradespeople. And you’ll notice that tradesp
by marxisttemp 2y ago
Let’s all remember that the vast majority of programmers are not mathematicians, nor logicians, nor authors, we are tradespeople. And you’ll notice that tradespeople in almost every other industry unionize.
- robertlagrant 2y agoI don't understand - how are programmers different to logicians in a way that's relevant to this?
- marxisttemp 2y agoVery few programmers I know spend their time devising logical theorems. They spend their time plumbing and engineering systems.
- robertlagrant 2y agoBut how's that relevant to this?
- enriquec 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Workaccount2 2y agoProgrammers are white collar engineers, I think you are confused here. Doesn't mean they can't create/join a union, but they are not really in the tradesman category. White collar unions are much tinier.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- slt2021 2y agoprogrammers are close to doctors than plumbers: high comp, high knowledge industry, constant learning Doctors have cartel though, instead of union that protects their jobs by limiting number of residency slots that limits number of new licensed doctors
- marxisttemp 2y agoNot even close to comparable. Becoming a doctor takes many more years than becoming a programmer. They have legal ramifications if they make mistakes instead of “teehee oopsie all our data leaked sorry”. The vast majority of programmers have a bachelor’s degree or lower. It is actually laughable to me that you would compare programmers to doctors. In any case, we should aspire to follow the model of unions and not cartels.
- slt2021 2y agobecoming a good engineer takes a lot of years too. your average 4 year college degree does not guarantee you become an engineer, plenty of new grads are without jobs. the best engineers I know have been coding since middle school and by the college graduation have 10+ experience coding at internationally competitive level. this is comparable to medical profession. if you ever meet an exceptionally good engineer - just ask him for how many years has he been coding? plenty will say at least high school if not earlier - all the way till their PhD that makes it two decades of learning+coding+improving. as for model: I am anti union and anti-cartel. Just free market as it works in the silicon valley. The competition is actually good, even from offshore workers - because it forces productivity to increase and constantly filters out the bottom ranks of the profession - they leave coding to something they are more capable of: people management, product management, program management, etc etc
- marxisttemp 2y agoThe best tradespeople I know have worked their trade since high school.
- abecedarius 2y ago
- ssklash 2y agoI've always thought that if a union is good enough for LeBron James and Tom Brady and Mike Trout, it's good enough for anyone. The same reason professional athletes have a union and would not dream of doing without one still fully applies to everyone else.
- morgante 2y agoYet professional athletes don't negotiate the same contract for everyone (precisely why I hate unions and what this union is demanding).
- tiznow 2y agoI agree with you, but consider the "outplaying your contract" and bad blood via arbitration problem we see in more and more (American) sports. Tech jobs aren't like being a plumber, one can't exactly say you need X amount of hours to be ready to do something, even only in the eyes of the law.
- matrix87 2y agoAre traditional engineers considered tradespeople by your definition? I kind of doubt actual tradespeople would be fond of us referring to ourselves as one of them
- redwall_hp 2y agoTradespeople have apprenticeships, professions have professors. Trades are skilled labor, professions are knowledge specialists.
- gosub100 2y agoA lot (not prepared to say majority) of tech workers aren't programmers. If you spend your day plugging services together through standard interfaces, that's very much akin to plumbing, just without the occupational hazards.
- gaws 2y ago> we are tradespeople Programmers are not "tradespeople." What an insane claim.
- Manuel_D 2y agoMost tradespeople are not unionized. Even the most highly unionzed trade - electricians - are only 1/3rd unionized. The most unionized jobs are not tradespeople, they're teachers and police officers. https://smartestdollar.com/research/the-most-unionized-occupations-2022 https://smartestdollar.com/research/the-most-unionized-occup...