3 ms·

Just the use of Tor, in Australia* at least, raises a law enforcement red flag (edit: not enough to justify a raid on its own, but a data point in that directio

Just the use of Tor, in Australia* at least, raises a law enforcement red flag (edit: not enough to justify a raid on its own, but a data point in that direction). So I was specifically told by a detective. *Australia has laws that requires ISPs to keep metadata for at least two years.

Gigachad 2y ago
Might be a point of interest but not a very strong one. We all used Tor in high school to play flash games on the school network. It's not like they bust down your door because you connected to Tor.
- BLKNSLVR 2y ago
  (I've added a note to my comment above) Yes, my intention was to say that it'll get their attention, but as a single data point won't justify a raid. The detective said it to me as part of the conversation in which I was told I could collect my seized equipment, and it was said in a way that implied they thought I was still "guilty" despite the fact they found nothing incriminating in the multiple terabytes of data they seized. The other (laughable) 'red flag data points' the detective mentioned were: - The usage of virtual machines - Having downloaded items from MEGA Incredibly low bars for suspicion if you ask me, but then I know a bare minimum about technology...
- pushupentry1219 2y ago
  Yeah. However, (and this applies to the parent comment as well), running a Tor exit node is entirely different to just "using Tor"
incompatible 2y ago
If I remember correctly, it was assured when the data retention requirement was set up that URLs wouldn't be collected. How would the cops even know somebody was using Tor?
- BLKNSLVR 2y ago
  Is that what George was trying to say? https://youtu.be/Hw1ryLGs2ws https://youtu.be/Hw1ryLGs2ws I believe URLs are captured where it's possible for them to be captured.
  - incompatible 2y ago
    I don't think he had a clue what he was trying to say, but I guess it was about retaining IP addresses, or domains, and not entire URLs. I don't think that Tor even runs over HTTP, so I have no idea if an ISP would log anything. I think a court warrant is needed before the ISP records can be accessed. What ASIO can do, however, may be a different story.
  - incompatible 2y ago
    It seems the cops can get metadata from an ISP without a warrant, but need a warrant to access "stored communications" such as emails. I assume they'd usually be following backwards from an IP address, e.g., in some investigation they've raided some server logs and found a connection from an IP address, and they'd then go to the ISP to get the name/address of the subscriber. They seem to do this quite frequently. https://privacy108.com.au/insights/metadata-access/ https://privacy108.com.au/insights/metadata-access/
    - BLKNSLVR 2y ago
      Great article, thanks for the link. Interesting (cherry-picked for maximum outrage) excerpts: In a report tabled in parliament by the Ombudsman in February 2021 (covering the period from 1 July 2018 to 30 June 2019) all agencies investigated were found to have accessed Australians’ metadata without the proper authorisation. “We identified instances at all inspections in 2018-19 where agencies had accessed telecommunications data without proper authority. As such, the disclosure of the data was unauthorised,”. The committee heard that while mandatory data-retention laws permit just 21 agencies to access the metadata, more than 87 other entities — including councils, the Victorian Institute of Education, the RSPCA and the South Australian fisheries department — have used section 280 to gain access. (Unrelated side note: this is the same country wanting to be given backdoor keys to encrypted communications).

Gigachad 2y ago

Might be a point of interest but not a very strong one. We all used Tor in high school to play flash games on the school network. It's not like they bust down your door because you connected to Tor.

BLKNSLVR 2y ago
(I've added a note to my comment above) Yes, my intention was to say that it'll get their attention, but as a single data point won't justify a raid. The detective said it to me as part of the conversation in which I was told I could collect my seized equipment, and it was said in a way that implied they thought I was still "guilty" despite the fact they found nothing incriminating in the multiple terabytes of data they seized. The other (laughable) 'red flag data points' the detective mentioned were: - The usage of virtual machines - Having downloaded items from MEGA Incredibly low bars for suspicion if you ask me, but then I know a bare minimum about technology...
pushupentry1219 2y ago
Yeah. However, (and this applies to the parent comment as well), running a Tor exit node is entirely different to just "using Tor"

incompatible 2y ago

If I remember correctly, it was assured when the data retention requirement was set up that URLs wouldn't be collected. How would the cops even know somebody was using Tor?

BLKNSLVR 2y ago
Is that what George was trying to say? https://youtu.be/Hw1ryLGs2ws https://youtu.be/Hw1ryLGs2ws I believe URLs are captured where it's possible for them to be captured.
- incompatible 2y ago
  I don't think he had a clue what he was trying to say, but I guess it was about retaining IP addresses, or domains, and not entire URLs. I don't think that Tor even runs over HTTP, so I have no idea if an ISP would log anything. I think a court warrant is needed before the ISP records can be accessed. What ASIO can do, however, may be a different story.
- incompatible 2y ago
  It seems the cops can get metadata from an ISP without a warrant, but need a warrant to access "stored communications" such as emails. I assume they'd usually be following backwards from an IP address, e.g., in some investigation they've raided some server logs and found a connection from an IP address, and they'd then go to the ISP to get the name/address of the subscriber. They seem to do this quite frequently. https://privacy108.com.au/insights/metadata-access/ https://privacy108.com.au/insights/metadata-access/
  - BLKNSLVR 2y ago
    Great article, thanks for the link. Interesting (cherry-picked for maximum outrage) excerpts: In a report tabled in parliament by the Ombudsman in February 2021 (covering the period from 1 July 2018 to 30 June 2019) all agencies investigated were found to have accessed Australians’ metadata without the proper authorisation. “We identified instances at all inspections in 2018-19 where agencies had accessed telecommunications data without proper authority. As such, the disclosure of the data was unauthorised,”. The committee heard that while mandatory data-retention laws permit just 21 agencies to access the metadata, more than 87 other entities — including councils, the Victorian Institute of Education, the RSPCA and the South Australian fisheries department — have used section 280 to gain access. (Unrelated side note: this is the same country wanting to be given backdoor keys to encrypted communications).