5 ms·
Flipper Zero Gets Major Firmware Update, Can Eavesdrop on Walkie-Talkies
- lupusreal 2y agoWalkie-talkies can "eavesdrop" on walkie-talkies...
- vueko 2y agoSeriously. People really need to understand that CTCSS and DCS aren't actually privacy features, but convenience features for filtering out _other_ people's transmissions a user isn't interested in. It's the exact opposite of privacy. I guess the marketing as "privacy codes" worsens the situation.
- solardev 2y agoI just got my GPRS radio license and this was a really strange phenomenon to encounter. Apparently the FCC doesn't allow actual encrypted comms in this part of the spectrum, so the "privacy" codes, like you said, are really more just convenience codes, more noise cancelation than anything for privacy or security. It was weird trying to explain this to my family, too. Basically just had to tell them "Nothing you say is private, and you should all say my call sign at the end of each transmission." We all felt like dorks, but it was super convenient in a place with no cell service.
- imroot 2y agoGet an itinerant frequency -- $300, requires no coordination, and you can encrypt your comms. One of the (ham) radio clubs that I'm a member of does this as a benefit for the group, and it's something that's nice to have: I can give my wife a radio and not worry about what she may or may not say if we have to take two separate cars when we road trip. I've been meaning to do the process myself, but, I haven't had the time (and honestly, I'd want someone else to do the paperwork for me so I'm more likely to pay someone else to do it) recently, but, this might be the thing that prompts me to go and do it. 73 de K4IMW/WQZQ315
- wferrell 2y agoCool! What sort of radio do you use? My friend and I tried to do -- the two of us in different cars driving down the same stretch of highway this with GPRS radios and very quickly we were not able to pick up the other's broadcast. We assumed it was that we didn't have big enough antennas and were not using a repeater. Note - others were driving we were each a passenger in our respective cars.
- solardev 2y agoDid you have car mounted external antennas? I'm totally new to the hobby so I might be wrong here, but I believe the handheld units are kinda trapped in a Faraday cage if you use them inside the car. If you have the 20W+ mobile (not handheld) kind and mount it to an external antenna though, there should be enough range even just with GMRS as long as you're not on the other side of the mountain or something? Edit: Sorry, it's GMRS, not GPRS (facepalm)
- wferrell 2y agoWe were not using car mounted antennas. We will try this next time!
- vueko 2y agoInteresting! I was under the impression that the FCC was actually somewhat strict about part 90.35 eligibility, in that you have to provide fairly detailed specifics of your business use case or how you fall under the various educational/nonprofit exemptions, and that if you told them you wanted it for personal use or supplied a thinly veiled excuse they'd tell you to get lost. Maybe that understanding is outdated. I can imagine a HAM club having an easier time justifying that than you would as a random individual.
- ac29 2y agoYou dont have to provide detailed specifics of your business use case, usually just a sentence is fine. But 90.35 does not allow for individuals to be licensed for personal communications. My guess is that if a ham club is offering this to members, it is doing so as an educational institution, or a public safety organization. If the license is granted that way, using it for personal communications would be impermissible.
- jasonjayr 2y agoI got my hands on one of those cheap UV-K5 Radios and the first thing I did was try to listen in to one of my FRS Radios and discovering all their channels & sub channels/privacy codes. Discovered this list while learning & researching: https://www.k0tfu.org/reference/frs-gmrs-privacy-codes-demystified.html https://www.k0tfu.org/reference/frs-gmrs-privacy-codes-demys...
- runjake 2y agoI was previously unaware of these particular radios. You just inadvertently sent me down one hell of a rabbit hole. It arrives Thursday.
- washadjeffmad 2y agoAnd they keep improving - I think the latest revisions come with expanded flash for custom firmware. I've got a few UV-K5(99)s right now, and I end up giving them away to friends (even if I replace the duckies and keep the tri-bands) when new models release. With the custom bandpass and filter mods, they're reignited a very old interest of mine.
- shadowpho 2y agoVery interesting! Where did you get them?
- sholladay 2y agoWhat would you call them, then? “Isolation codes” or “subchannels”, maybe? I’ve seen some use of the former, but both are imperfect terms. I’ve yet to hear a suggestion that’s particularly better. A term that’s only slightly better won’t gain any traction.
- teeray 2y ago“Selector codes” would be more descriptive. They select which conversations you want to hear.
- sholladay 2y ago“Conversation codes” speaks to me (heh)
- paulmd 2y ago"squelch codes" probably conveys the meaning more correctly. people understand the idiom that just because your radio has squelch set (too high, perhaps) that it doesn't mean someone else can't hear it. otherwise, CTCSS codes works fine, that's the technical description of what it is. and actually they call them "squelch tones" there. it's only motorola that branded them as "private lines", that's their trademark for an adequately-described term. Much like Tesla "Full Self Driving"/"Autopilot", it's kind of a misnomer and definitely breeds (deserved) confusion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_Tone-Coded_Squelch_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_Tone-Coded_Squelch_...
- sholladay 2y agoI submit that most non-technical people have no clue what “squelch” means. It’s not a commonly used word outside of electronics. And it makes it sound like your radio’s output is being suppressed, which is inaccurate in this case. I think some more appropriate terms could be “party”, “group”, “topic”, “line”, or “room”.
- paulmd 2y ago
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoWhat prevents people from transmitting encrypted information? Isn’t that just like speech that might travel over the airwaves?
- lxgr 2y agoTechnically nothing, but legally it's just not allowed in the US (neither for FRS/GMRS, nor for ham radio operators, with very few exceptions).
- stackedinserter 2y agoInteresting, is speaking in a language that nobody else understands counts as "encrypted transmission"?
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoThat’s what I mean. Isn’t any data the same as speech in general?
- a96 2y agoThe phrase "criminal intent" comes to mind. No idea if anyone actually cares whether a signal is clearly understandable or not unless you're targeted for some reason.
- red-iron-pine 2y agothe content of the speech is protected. you can say "fuck this guy" where this guy could be anyone. but you can't legally send encrypted over the radio, since those protocols are restricted by the FCC. You won't catch a charge for what you said, but you might get fined for misuse of the radio band. its the same way you can't spray paint a slogan on the front of someone's business -- the content is fine, but the medium is not.
- MarkusWandel 2y agoIndeed the opposite. For example, a party of us was on a mountaintop going through the FRS/GMRS channels with CTSS off and heard another party. We were curious to ask them where they were, but they couldn't hear us until, manually stepping through the CTSS options, we found the one that enabled their receiver to hear us. It's not a privacy filter, it's a "don't bother me" filter.
- _ache_ 2y agoI'm really happy about the firmware updates. When Flipper Zero was crowdfunded, the deal was that the tool will be available once the hardware is good enough to fulfill the promises. And so the software will be updated later. I'm happy that they keep they promises.
- ChrisArchitect 2y agoOfficial release: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41500279 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41500279
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- big-green-man 2y agoAnybody can eavesdrop on walkie talkies. I can do it with my baofeng. It's not that interesting. What is interesting is everything else that that device can do.
- SV_BubbleTime 2y ago>What is interesting is everything else that that device can do. Leaving me hanging.
- big-green-man 2y agoYou were hanging when I got here.
- georgyo 2y agoI think this is undercutting the announcement. A baofeng is a specialized tool specifically for RX/TX 2m and 70cm analog audio radio waves. Of course it can listen to walkie talkies which are transmitting on 70cm. I read your comment as someone posting about making toast with an iron and saying "Anyone can make toast. I can do it with my toaster. It's not that interesting" All things that device can do is interesting because it is so many things, including this new ability.
- system2 2y agoUV5R with antenna upgrade works perfectly. I was able to listen to ISS from my backyard too. Hard to believe it is $20 for the quality of its hardware.
- zactato 2y agoIs the Flipper Zero still legit? I know it’s only quasi legal in some places. I see a lot of ads for it to the point where I kind of suspect it’s some sort of FBI entrapment program. Maybe I’m just being paranoid.
- system2 2y agoNot as small or sleek, but you can still get everything Flipper Zero is doing with Arduino or a small laptop with basic antenna hardware. Flipper Zero is the iPhone of radio pentest gadgets.
- somat 2y agoIt is an software defined radio with a nice interface built around it. Perhaps the nice interface has lowered the bar enough for it to now be in the crosshairs of the state, this has happened before, sometimes just making the tool easy enough for anybody to use is enough to make it illegal/controlled. The point being the flipper does not do anything that is not possible with other tools, it just makes it easy.
- aeonik 2y agoIt's not actually an SDR, it just has a discerning collection of hardware radio modules on it. If it was a self contained SDR you would expect a much beefier processor and power draw from the device from all the digital signal processing.
- retrochameleon 2y agoThe device is worthwhile if you are exploring this kind of hardware security and also want to poke at other things while you're on the go to enhance your learning. The fact they added a Javascript engine so you don't have to program in C/C++ when you want to run something custom, I think will be a huge boon. Don't undervalue getting all these features in a purpose-built device with a purpose-built OS.
- daghamm 2y agoStill looking for a cheaper alternative. All I need is a cheap portable SDR I can program. No need for a fancy enclosure or UI.
- psvisualdesign 2y agowhy not use a Raspberry Pi with every RTL-SDR Stick you can find? Or spluge on an HackRF :)
- jvanderbot 2y agoAre you not satisfied with the myriad of cheap baofeng/clone UHF/VHF handhelds that support CHIRP?