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We should all be wary when non-medical politicians start campaigns involving medical issues. There is no scientific evidence or consensus of this position these

We should all be wary when non-medical politicians start campaigns involving medical issues. There is no scientific evidence or consensus of this position these politicans are pushing. The verge even mentions this offhand in their write-up, "with the exception of state-level rules demanding adult sites add unproven health notices about pornography." This is exactly the same type of situation in terms of being unsupported non-science. But at least it's just a label and not the use of violent force like with states and their poltiical campaigns using pornography as justification/incitement of fears.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Social media is of low value. Best case, political action beats something toxic into submission. Worst case, it does to social what Musk did to Twitter (hollowing it out). Low risk, low/high reward. If social disappeared tomorrow, the world would not be worse off (although those working for it and investing in it would be). Edit: @VyseofArcadia Thank you! Words are hard.
- tqi 2y ago
  > Social media is of low value ...to you. Everyone is a Libertarian except when it comes to other people's preferences.
  - superkuh 2y ago
    Indeed, it depends on what type of value he meant. A lot of people would lose their incomes if there was no social media. It is not really about being social or communicating. Social media is the subset of corporations that have established legal ways enable the transfer of money between people on the internet. Which is why non-profit social networks never really rise beyond a fractional percent of usage (ie, mastodon's 1 million), they don't ever try to solve (and cannot solve due to KYC) the primary use case of social media being a job.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    That’s why I vote for folks who want to strongly regulate and potentially dismantle these orgs. That’s democracy (assuming enough others seek the same harm reduction). I feel the same about tobacco, alcohol, and other industries targeting vulnerable humans. Have to defend the human from systems built to extract while harming in the process.
    - akira2501 2y ago
      > who want to strongly regulate and potentially dismantle these orgs. That’s democracy Voting for someone who intends to exceed the bounds of the constitution is not democracy. That's just a hired bully. > others seek the same harm reduction You're free to reduce your own harm. You are not free to prescriptively dictate an acceptable level of harm to others. > targeting vulnerable humans. All those other things you mentioned need well marketed and broadly advertised lies to function. Why do you suppose social media does not need the same? Aside from that wouldn't your goal to make humans less vulnerable? Or are we perennially going to bully everyone else over the imagined needs of this class while constantly ignoring the rest of their plight? "We don't care that you're vulnerable. We care that we can use you as an excuse to get what we want."
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        We already regulate many things for harm, by age (alcohol, tobacco, firearms, recreational drugs), and broadly without regard to age (meth, fentanyl, etc). I think you are confused with regards to current state vs the way you wish the world was. The discussion is adding additional items to that regulatory list. > If something changes the pathways in our brains and damages our health — and if it does so to Americans on a vast scale — it should be regulated as a threat to public health. https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2021/12/03/regulating-out-of-the-social-media-health-crisis/ https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2021/12/03/regulatin... https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/it-or-not-social-medias-affecting-your-mental-health https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/it-or-not-social-me... https://health.clevelandclinic.org/is-it-possible-to-become-addicted-to-social-media https://health.clevelandclinic.org/is-it-possible-to-become-... It’s still democracy even when you aren't happy with the outcome. You got the vote. That’s the democracy part, not the winning.
- VyseofArcadia 2y ago
  > hallowing it out FYI you probably mean "hollowing it out". "Hallowing" is to sanctify or make holy, which is pretty much the opposite of what Musk did to Twitter.
- logicchains 2y ago
  Social media is of immense value to humanity because it allows rapid decentralised transmission of information. It's why for instance young Americans have been making much more of a fuss about the current genocide in Gaza than any previous one, because the flow of information is no longer filtered through a small number of self-interested media corporations. The fact it pushes some psychologically unstable individuals over the edge is no justification for trying to destroy the whole system; the priority should be on getting those people the treatment they need.
  - atmavatar 2y ago
    > because the flow of information is no longer filtered through a small number of self-interested media corporations Isn't it, though? It seems to me, particularly due to the fact that people now overwhelmingly get their news from social media, that we've merely shifted which self-interested media corporations do the filtering.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
wkat4242 2y ago
True, there's a lot of misinformation about porn. I do some amateur/OnlyFans stuff and i have several friends that work for a big studio. Never heard of any abuse going on in the industry itself. Though it is true that people with prior abuse are more likely to be in this industry, it does seem to be pretty common. But I think it's a coping mechanism too. Everyone I know is happy to do the work anyway. The environment seems also really chill, they shoot at these luxury villas and afterwards hang out in the pool etc. Of course N=1 but the whole stigma of it being a cesspool of abuse seems more politically/religiously motivated.
- kergonath 2y ago
  There is some abuse, but I don’t have reliable statistics to say whether it’s worse than, say the music industry. What is true is that very often the people who complain loudly about porn don’t actually give a fuck about the women and would want them in the kitchen anyway. It’s like nationalists pretending to care about the welfare of migrants when arguing that they should be kept somewhere else. It’s pure hypocrisy.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    > say the music industry. Yeah or the vanilla film industry. With characters like Weinstein and the others..
    - kergonath 2y ago
      I had this in mind as well. Or academia, which I know better and still has a lot of issues, even if it rarely goes all the way to rape.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 2y ago
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toomuchtodo 2y ago

Social media is of low value. Best case, political action beats something toxic into submission. Worst case, it does to social what Musk did to Twitter (hollowing it out). Low risk, low/high reward. If social disappeared tomorrow, the world would not be worse off (although those working for it and investing in it would be). Edit: @VyseofArcadia Thank you! Words are hard.

tqi 2y ago
> Social media is of low value ...to you. Everyone is a Libertarian except when it comes to other people's preferences.
- superkuh 2y ago
  Indeed, it depends on what type of value he meant. A lot of people would lose their incomes if there was no social media. It is not really about being social or communicating. Social media is the subset of corporations that have established legal ways enable the transfer of money between people on the internet. Which is why non-profit social networks never really rise beyond a fractional percent of usage (ie, mastodon's 1 million), they don't ever try to solve (and cannot solve due to KYC) the primary use case of social media being a job.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  That’s why I vote for folks who want to strongly regulate and potentially dismantle these orgs. That’s democracy (assuming enough others seek the same harm reduction). I feel the same about tobacco, alcohol, and other industries targeting vulnerable humans. Have to defend the human from systems built to extract while harming in the process.
  - akira2501 2y ago
    > who want to strongly regulate and potentially dismantle these orgs. That’s democracy Voting for someone who intends to exceed the bounds of the constitution is not democracy. That's just a hired bully. > others seek the same harm reduction You're free to reduce your own harm. You are not free to prescriptively dictate an acceptable level of harm to others. > targeting vulnerable humans. All those other things you mentioned need well marketed and broadly advertised lies to function. Why do you suppose social media does not need the same? Aside from that wouldn't your goal to make humans less vulnerable? Or are we perennially going to bully everyone else over the imagined needs of this class while constantly ignoring the rest of their plight? "We don't care that you're vulnerable. We care that we can use you as an excuse to get what we want."
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      We already regulate many things for harm, by age (alcohol, tobacco, firearms, recreational drugs), and broadly without regard to age (meth, fentanyl, etc). I think you are confused with regards to current state vs the way you wish the world was. The discussion is adding additional items to that regulatory list. > If something changes the pathways in our brains and damages our health — and if it does so to Americans on a vast scale — it should be regulated as a threat to public health. https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2021/12/03/regulating-out-of-the-social-media-health-crisis/ https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2021/12/03/regulatin... https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/it-or-not-social-medias-affecting-your-mental-health https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/it-or-not-social-me... https://health.clevelandclinic.org/is-it-possible-to-become-addicted-to-social-media https://health.clevelandclinic.org/is-it-possible-to-become-... It’s still democracy even when you aren't happy with the outcome. You got the vote. That’s the democracy part, not the winning.
VyseofArcadia 2y ago
> hallowing it out FYI you probably mean "hollowing it out". "Hallowing" is to sanctify or make holy, which is pretty much the opposite of what Musk did to Twitter.
logicchains 2y ago
Social media is of immense value to humanity because it allows rapid decentralised transmission of information. It's why for instance young Americans have been making much more of a fuss about the current genocide in Gaza than any previous one, because the flow of information is no longer filtered through a small number of self-interested media corporations. The fact it pushes some psychologically unstable individuals over the edge is no justification for trying to destroy the whole system; the priority should be on getting those people the treatment they need.
- atmavatar 2y ago
  > because the flow of information is no longer filtered through a small number of self-interested media corporations Isn't it, though? It seems to me, particularly due to the fact that people now overwhelmingly get their news from social media, that we've merely shifted which self-interested media corporations do the filtering.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

wkat4242 2y ago

True, there's a lot of misinformation about porn. I do some amateur/OnlyFans stuff and i have several friends that work for a big studio. Never heard of any abuse going on in the industry itself. Though it is true that people with prior abuse are more likely to be in this industry, it does seem to be pretty common. But I think it's a coping mechanism too. Everyone I know is happy to do the work anyway. The environment seems also really chill, they shoot at these luxury villas and afterwards hang out in the pool etc. Of course N=1 but the whole stigma of it being a cesspool of abuse seems more politically/religiously motivated.

kergonath 2y ago
There is some abuse, but I don’t have reliable statistics to say whether it’s worse than, say the music industry. What is true is that very often the people who complain loudly about porn don’t actually give a fuck about the women and would want them in the kitchen anyway. It’s like nationalists pretending to care about the welfare of migrants when arguing that they should be kept somewhere else. It’s pure hypocrisy.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  > say the music industry. Yeah or the vanilla film industry. With characters like Weinstein and the others..
  - kergonath 2y ago
    I had this in mind as well. Or academia, which I know better and still has a lot of issues, even if it rarely goes all the way to rape.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]