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And recently, BMW with their announcement of a joint venture with Toyota [0] to focus on hydrogen cars. [0] https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/news/general/2024/hydro

And recently, BMW with their announcement of a joint venture with Toyota [0] to focus on hydrogen cars. [0] https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/news/general/2024/hydrogen-cooperation.html https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/news/general/2024/hydrogen-coope...

soco 2y ago
Maybe it's not the best place to ask in a sub-comment but I keep wondering, what's the big deal with hydrogen cars? They're not anything greener than electric (actually less, as you lose more in the intermediate steps), safety also has its question marks, range improvement is still on the theoretical side, gas stations have to be retrofitted anyway, mechanically they have as many moving parts as an ICE so it's actually a disadvantage... I mean okay we're researching, but today it still looks to me very far from better.
- niceguy1827 2y ago
  It's about the supply chain and patents. Japanese companies have cornered the world in both -- if they get traction on these technologies, they are poised to profit much more than they would if say Toyota succeeds at selling full evs.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  >mechanically they have as many moving parts as an ICE so it's actually a disadvantage I'm not sure this is true. They're talking about hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles here, not hydrogen-burning ICEs. So a fuel cell (which I believe has no moving parts at all) converts hydrogen to electricity, and from there the rest of the drivetrain is basically like an EV. In effect, you're using a tank of hydrogen gas as a crappy battery that can only discharge. >what's the big deal with hydrogen cars? Oil companies like them because it means that they stay relevant: you can generate hydrogen from fossil fuels pretty easily, plus this keeps them in position as necessary for fueling your car: instead of having to go to a Chevron station for gasoline, now you go to that same station for hydrogen. You don't get power from your electric utility to run your car, which makes the oil companies obsolete.

soco 2y ago

Maybe it's not the best place to ask in a sub-comment but I keep wondering, what's the big deal with hydrogen cars? They're not anything greener than electric (actually less, as you lose more in the intermediate steps), safety also has its question marks, range improvement is still on the theoretical side, gas stations have to be retrofitted anyway, mechanically they have as many moving parts as an ICE so it's actually a disadvantage... I mean okay we're researching, but today it still looks to me very far from better.

niceguy1827 2y ago
It's about the supply chain and patents. Japanese companies have cornered the world in both -- if they get traction on these technologies, they are poised to profit much more than they would if say Toyota succeeds at selling full evs.
shiroiushi 2y ago
>mechanically they have as many moving parts as an ICE so it's actually a disadvantage I'm not sure this is true. They're talking about hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles here, not hydrogen-burning ICEs. So a fuel cell (which I believe has no moving parts at all) converts hydrogen to electricity, and from there the rest of the drivetrain is basically like an EV. In effect, you're using a tank of hydrogen gas as a crappy battery that can only discharge. >what's the big deal with hydrogen cars? Oil companies like them because it means that they stay relevant: you can generate hydrogen from fossil fuels pretty easily, plus this keeps them in position as necessary for fueling your car: instead of having to go to a Chevron station for gasoline, now you go to that same station for hydrogen. You don't get power from your electric utility to run your car, which makes the oil companies obsolete.