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This line of thought is precisely why Linux continues to falter in mainstream acceptance. Windows exists to enable the user to do whatever he wants. If the use

This line of thought is precisely why Linux continues to falter in mainstream acceptance. Windows exists to enable the user to do whatever he wants. If the user wants to play a game or watch a video, Direct3D is there to let him do that. If he doesn't, Direct3D doesn't get in the way. This is far better than Linux's (neckbeards'?) philosophy of Thou Shalt Not Divert From The One True Path which will inevitably inconvenience many people and lead to, you guessed it, failure in the mainstream market. Contrast Android, which took Linux and re-packaged it in a more Windows-like way so people could actually use the bloody thing.

agumonkey 2y ago
Not to contradict but it seems to me that *nixes have always split user interaction and 'compute'. To them running a headless toaster is probably more valuable than a desktop UI.
movedx 2y ago
> If the user wants to play a game or watch a video, Direct3D is there to let him do that. If he doesn't, Direct3D doesn't get in the way. I _just_ moved from Windows 11 to Kubuntu. None of that stuff is missing. In fact, unlike Windows 10/11, I didn't even have to install a graphics driver. My AMD 7700 XTX literally just worked right out of the box. Instantly. Ironically that’s not the case for Windows 10/11. This isn’t a “My OS is better than your OS” debate — we’re talking about why D3D being integrated into the kernel is a good idea. I’m playing devil’s advocate. And thus, you missed my point: "Why should Linux have an equivalent to Direct3D" isn't me arguing that Windows having it is bad, it's me asking people to think about design choices and consider whether they're good or bad. > This is far better than Linux's (neckbeards'?) philosophy of Thou Shalt Not Divert From The One True Path which will inevitably inconvenience many people and lead to, you guessed it, failure in the mainstream market. If you think Windows having Direct3D "built in" is why it has mainstream dominance, then you potentially have a very narrow view of history, market timing, economics, politics, and a whole range of other topics that actually led to the dominance of Windows.
- Hikikomori 2y ago
  >I _just_ moved from Windows 11 to Kubuntu. None of that stuff is missing. In fact, unlike Windows 10/11, I didn't even have to install a graphics driver. My AMD 7700 XTX literally just worked right out of the box. Instantly. Ironically that’s not the case for Windows 10/11. How did you install a driver on windows if your gpu didn't work out of the box?
  - SoothingSorbet 2y ago
    I'm sure Windows is perfectly capable of driving a GOP framebuffer. That doesn't mean the kernel has an actual GPU driver.
    - Hikikomori 2y ago
      It will also install a proper driver with windows update, can also do that during the installation.
      - movedx 2y ago
        No. That's not true. It does not do that. I've reinstalled Windows 11 several times to resolve issues or try these kinds of things out. It has never offered to download an AMD driver for me. This is false.
        Hikikomori 2y ago
        Windows update doesn't install a proper driver?
        movedx 2y ago
        Does it download an official AMD driver? No. It hasn’t ever done for me across hundreds of Windows installs across hundreds of devices.
        2y ago
SoothingSorbet 2y ago
> Windows exists to enable the user to do whatever he wants It's very bad at that, then, considering it insists on getting in my way any time I want to do something (_especially_ something off of the beaten path). > If the user wants to play a game or watch a video, Direct3D is there to let him do that. If he doesn't, Direct3D doesn't get in the way. I don't see what the point you are trying to make is, this is no different on Linux. What does D3D being in the kernel have to do with _anything_? You can have a software rasterizer on Linux too. You can play games and watch videos. Your message is incoherent.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >I don't see what the point you are trying to make is Parent commenter said Linux shouldn't have <X> if it's not useful for everyone, though more likely he means for himself. Either way, he is arguing Linux shouldn't have a feature for dogmatic reasons. Violating the Unix ethos of doing only one thing, or something. Meanwhile, Windows (and Android) have features so people can actually get some bloody work done rather than proselytize about their glorious beardcode.
  - movedx 2y ago
    > Parent commenter said Linux shouldn't have <X> I said no such thing! You've completely missed the point.
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      You said "why must Linux have" a feature that can be useful to some and not useful to others. Taking that to its strongest conclusion[1], you're saying Linux shouldn't have something if it's not useful to "everyone" and asking for counter arguments; this is not unlike the "Do one thing and do it well." Unix ethos. Clearly, as demonstrated by history, most people prefer that their computers can and will do the many things they need or want with minimal finagling. That is what having DirectX inside Windows means, and why Linux which makes that a finagling option at best and flat out refuses as heresy at worst flounders. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
severino 2y ago
I don't get it. You mean people can't watch videos or play games in Linux?
- movedx 2y ago
  I'm using Linux right now, and sadly I only have access to an 80x30 black and white terminal. I'm writing this comment as a raw HTTP request to this site. Send help. I just need colour and at least 1024x968... please help! I wish I could watch videos!

agumonkey 2y ago

Not to contradict but it seems to me that *nixes have always split user interaction and 'compute'. To them running a headless toaster is probably more valuable than a desktop UI.

movedx 2y ago

> If the user wants to play a game or watch a video, Direct3D is there to let him do that. If he doesn't, Direct3D doesn't get in the way. I _just_ moved from Windows 11 to Kubuntu. None of that stuff is missing. In fact, unlike Windows 10/11, I didn't even have to install a graphics driver. My AMD 7700 XTX literally just worked right out of the box. Instantly. Ironically that’s not the case for Windows 10/11. This isn’t a “My OS is better than your OS” debate — we’re talking about why D3D being integrated into the kernel is a good idea. I’m playing devil’s advocate. And thus, you missed my point: "Why should Linux have an equivalent to Direct3D" isn't me arguing that Windows having it is bad, it's me asking people to think about design choices and consider whether they're good or bad. > This is far better than Linux's (neckbeards'?) philosophy of Thou Shalt Not Divert From The One True Path which will inevitably inconvenience many people and lead to, you guessed it, failure in the mainstream market. If you think Windows having Direct3D "built in" is why it has mainstream dominance, then you potentially have a very narrow view of history, market timing, economics, politics, and a whole range of other topics that actually led to the dominance of Windows.

Hikikomori 2y ago
>I _just_ moved from Windows 11 to Kubuntu. None of that stuff is missing. In fact, unlike Windows 10/11, I didn't even have to install a graphics driver. My AMD 7700 XTX literally just worked right out of the box. Instantly. Ironically that’s not the case for Windows 10/11. How did you install a driver on windows if your gpu didn't work out of the box?
- SoothingSorbet 2y ago
  I'm sure Windows is perfectly capable of driving a GOP framebuffer. That doesn't mean the kernel has an actual GPU driver.
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    It will also install a proper driver with windows update, can also do that during the installation.
    - movedx 2y ago
      No. That's not true. It does not do that. I've reinstalled Windows 11 several times to resolve issues or try these kinds of things out. It has never offered to download an AMD driver for me. This is false.
      - Hikikomori 2y ago
        Windows update doesn't install a proper driver?
        movedx 2y ago
        Does it download an official AMD driver? No. It hasn’t ever done for me across hundreds of Windows installs across hundreds of devices.
        2y ago

SoothingSorbet 2y ago

> Windows exists to enable the user to do whatever he wants It's very bad at that, then, considering it insists on getting in my way any time I want to do something (_especially_ something off of the beaten path). > If the user wants to play a game or watch a video, Direct3D is there to let him do that. If he doesn't, Direct3D doesn't get in the way. I don't see what the point you are trying to make is, this is no different on Linux. What does D3D being in the kernel have to do with _anything_? You can have a software rasterizer on Linux too. You can play games and watch videos. Your message is incoherent.

Dalewyn 2y ago
>I don't see what the point you are trying to make is Parent commenter said Linux shouldn't have <X> if it's not useful for everyone, though more likely he means for himself. Either way, he is arguing Linux shouldn't have a feature for dogmatic reasons. Violating the Unix ethos of doing only one thing, or something. Meanwhile, Windows (and Android) have features so people can actually get some bloody work done rather than proselytize about their glorious beardcode.
- movedx 2y ago
  > Parent commenter said Linux shouldn't have <X> I said no such thing! You've completely missed the point.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    You said "why must Linux have" a feature that can be useful to some and not useful to others. Taking that to its strongest conclusion[1], you're saying Linux shouldn't have something if it's not useful to "everyone" and asking for counter arguments; this is not unlike the "Do one thing and do it well." Unix ethos. Clearly, as demonstrated by history, most people prefer that their computers can and will do the many things they need or want with minimal finagling. That is what having DirectX inside Windows means, and why Linux which makes that a finagling option at best and flat out refuses as heresy at worst flounders. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

severino 2y ago

I don't get it. You mean people can't watch videos or play games in Linux?

movedx 2y ago
I'm using Linux right now, and sadly I only have access to an 80x30 black and white terminal. I'm writing this comment as a raw HTTP request to this site. Send help. I just need colour and at least 1024x968... please help! I wish I could watch videos!