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Being fair, I've seen the effect mere alcohol has on a child first hand. It's not subtle, and it is debilitating for the child in the long run. Can you imagine

Being fair, I've seen the effect mere alcohol has on a child first hand. It's not subtle, and it is debilitating for the child in the long run. Can you imagine your child being addicted to meth coming out of the womb, and how it affected their development? There's a lot of prescription drugs that doctors will take pregnant women off due to the impact it can have on the fetus. To the point where it could kill the mother (thinking mostly of long-term cancer treatments for this use-case).

jimt1234 2y ago
I get that, but why doesn't any of this fall on dudes? Yes, mothers actually "give birth", but focusing punishment only on mothers implies that dudes lack accountability in the birthing process, like, "Here ya go. Here's some sperm. It's all on you now." Sorry, not trying to be argumentative. But I'm just kinda passionate about this stuff. And I don't even have any kids! LOL
- Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
  dudes dont have babies, man
  - falcolas 2y ago
    No, they certainly do not. But they are directly involved in causing pregnancies. They are directly involved in the cause of everything a woman goes through prior to giving birth.
- doubled112 2y ago
  I can be fall down drunk 24x7 the whole 10 months my wife is pregnant. Not going to affect the baby. Also, can I decide what my wife puts in her body?
  - falcolas 2y ago
    > I can be fall down drunk 24x7 the whole 10 months my wife is pregnant. Not going to affect the baby. Ironically, it probably will. Having a husband be that drunk would likely stress the mother, which does indeed affect the baby. > Also, can I decide what my wife puts in her body? If you're a husband whose judgement and word she can trust, I'd assume that she would take your opinions quite seriously.
- falcolas 2y ago
  > "Here ya go. Here's some sperm. It's all on you now." This is definitely a problem. There's remarkably little accountability for a man's role in the shit a woman has to go through while pregnant and giving birth. I don't know what to do about that though. Start child care payments backdated to conception if they leave? Base their child care costs on their earnings when they decided to have sex?
  - Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
    remarkably little accountability for a man's role in the shit a woman has to go through while pregnant and giving birth. Weird how "My body, my choice" turns into "my body, your problem" the picosecond it is convenient. Woman have not been held accountable for promiscuity for the last 50 years and the results are just in: it has destroyed society.
    - falcolas 2y ago
      > Woman have not been held accountable for promiscuity for the last 50 years and the results are just in: it has destroyed society. Sex is a two-person activity. If you really believe it's destroyed society, you have to put equal blame on the men who rewarded and indulged in such "promiscuity." Blaming it solely on women is silly (and yes, also misogynistic). This stance also removes the agency of men, reducing them to nothing more than an animal who acts solely on their base instincts. For the record, I disagree 100% that abortion rights have destroyed society. Heck, I don't even think that society is in terrible shape. With that said, if I were to be a reductionist and try to put a finger on issues we are facing, they would boil down to hate and greed (less selfish greed and more "I want to have more money than God" greed).
lazyasciiart 2y ago
I’m a foster parent so yes, I can imagine it. But more relevantly - we are talking about prescription drugs that a doctor did not take the mother off. If there are risks, the prescribing medical professional is perfectly well set up to know about them. CPS doesn’t need to be involved.
- lazyasciiart 2y ago
  If people thought this desperately needed to be reported somehow, it should be a report to the medical licensing board - the prescriber is the one who made the decision that she should take it, and it’s their medical decision making being questioned. Of course that would probably lead to doctors refusing to prescribe anything to pregnant women.
- falcolas 2y ago
  I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying here, but "many people really really want to criminalize using drugs while pregnant" is a much broader statement than a pregnant woman taking prescribed medications. That is what I was referring to.

jimt1234 2y ago

I get that, but why doesn't any of this fall on dudes? Yes, mothers actually "give birth", but focusing punishment only on mothers implies that dudes lack accountability in the birthing process, like, "Here ya go. Here's some sperm. It's all on you now." Sorry, not trying to be argumentative. But I'm just kinda passionate about this stuff. And I don't even have any kids! LOL

Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
dudes dont have babies, man
- falcolas 2y ago
  No, they certainly do not. But they are directly involved in causing pregnancies. They are directly involved in the cause of everything a woman goes through prior to giving birth.
doubled112 2y ago
I can be fall down drunk 24x7 the whole 10 months my wife is pregnant. Not going to affect the baby. Also, can I decide what my wife puts in her body?
- falcolas 2y ago
  > I can be fall down drunk 24x7 the whole 10 months my wife is pregnant. Not going to affect the baby. Ironically, it probably will. Having a husband be that drunk would likely stress the mother, which does indeed affect the baby. > Also, can I decide what my wife puts in her body? If you're a husband whose judgement and word she can trust, I'd assume that she would take your opinions quite seriously.
falcolas 2y ago
> "Here ya go. Here's some sperm. It's all on you now." This is definitely a problem. There's remarkably little accountability for a man's role in the shit a woman has to go through while pregnant and giving birth. I don't know what to do about that though. Start child care payments backdated to conception if they leave? Base their child care costs on their earnings when they decided to have sex?
- Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
  remarkably little accountability for a man's role in the shit a woman has to go through while pregnant and giving birth. Weird how "My body, my choice" turns into "my body, your problem" the picosecond it is convenient. Woman have not been held accountable for promiscuity for the last 50 years and the results are just in: it has destroyed society.
  - falcolas 2y ago
    > Woman have not been held accountable for promiscuity for the last 50 years and the results are just in: it has destroyed society. Sex is a two-person activity. If you really believe it's destroyed society, you have to put equal blame on the men who rewarded and indulged in such "promiscuity." Blaming it solely on women is silly (and yes, also misogynistic). This stance also removes the agency of men, reducing them to nothing more than an animal who acts solely on their base instincts. For the record, I disagree 100% that abortion rights have destroyed society. Heck, I don't even think that society is in terrible shape. With that said, if I were to be a reductionist and try to put a finger on issues we are facing, they would boil down to hate and greed (less selfish greed and more "I want to have more money than God" greed).

lazyasciiart 2y ago

I’m a foster parent so yes, I can imagine it. But more relevantly - we are talking about prescription drugs that a doctor did not take the mother off. If there are risks, the prescribing medical professional is perfectly well set up to know about them. CPS doesn’t need to be involved.

lazyasciiart 2y ago
If people thought this desperately needed to be reported somehow, it should be a report to the medical licensing board - the prescriber is the one who made the decision that she should take it, and it’s their medical decision making being questioned. Of course that would probably lead to doctors refusing to prescribe anything to pregnant women.
falcolas 2y ago
I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying here, but "many people really really want to criminalize using drugs while pregnant" is a much broader statement than a pregnant woman taking prescribed medications. That is what I was referring to.