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The article seems to focus on the unreliability of drug testing, which is a great topic, but IMHO, the real issue here is mothers being drug-tested, seemingly w

The article seems to focus on the unreliability of drug testing, which is a great topic, but IMHO, the real issue here is mothers being drug-tested, seemingly without their consent or knowledge. Furthermore, I feel like focusing on the reliability of drug testing (again, a great topic) implies the practice of drug testing mothers is acceptable. It's not. We all wanna protect babies, and punish bad parents, but why does this seem to always fall on mothers/women? Yes, I know there's plenty of laws that could apply to fathers, but I've never heard of a dude getting drug-tested without his consent as a condition of fatherhood.

lazyasciiart 2y ago
Because many people really really want to criminalize using drugs while pregnant. Some states already have. Edit: Washington state updated their state guidelines so that if a baby tests positive for opiates and they match a prescribed medication the mother is taking then they don’t need to make a report to CPS. You literally had news articles screaming that babies would die because of this change. e.g this article is a good example of the coverage: mostly they never even explained that it had to be a prescribed drug to get out of reporting https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/wa-hospitals-no-longer-required-to-report-all-substance-exposed-infants/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/wa-hospital...
- falcolas 2y ago
  Being fair, I've seen the effect mere alcohol has on a child first hand. It's not subtle, and it is debilitating for the child in the long run. Can you imagine your child being addicted to meth coming out of the womb, and how it affected their development? There's a lot of prescription drugs that doctors will take pregnant women off due to the impact it can have on the fetus. To the point where it could kill the mother (thinking mostly of long-term cancer treatments for this use-case).
  - jimt1234 2y ago
    I get that, but why doesn't any of this fall on dudes? Yes, mothers actually "give birth", but focusing punishment only on mothers implies that dudes lack accountability in the birthing process, like, "Here ya go. Here's some sperm. It's all on you now." Sorry, not trying to be argumentative. But I'm just kinda passionate about this stuff. And I don't even have any kids! LOL
    - Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
      dudes dont have babies, man
      - falcolas 2y ago
        No, they certainly do not. But they are directly involved in causing pregnancies. They are directly involved in the cause of everything a woman goes through prior to giving birth.
    - doubled112 2y ago
      I can be fall down drunk 24x7 the whole 10 months my wife is pregnant. Not going to affect the baby. Also, can I decide what my wife puts in her body?
      - falcolas 2y ago
        > I can be fall down drunk 24x7 the whole 10 months my wife is pregnant. Not going to affect the baby. Ironically, it probably will. Having a husband be that drunk would likely stress the mother, which does indeed affect the baby. > Also, can I decide what my wife puts in her body? If you're a husband whose judgement and word she can trust, I'd assume that she would take your opinions quite seriously.
    - falcolas 2y ago
      > "Here ya go. Here's some sperm. It's all on you now." This is definitely a problem. There's remarkably little accountability for a man's role in the shit a woman has to go through while pregnant and giving birth. I don't know what to do about that though. Start child care payments backdated to conception if they leave? Base their child care costs on their earnings when they decided to have sex?
  - lazyasciiart 2y ago
    I’m a foster parent so yes, I can imagine it. But more relevantly - we are talking about prescription drugs that a doctor did not take the mother off. If there are risks, the prescribing medical professional is perfectly well set up to know about them. CPS doesn’t need to be involved.
    - lazyasciiart 2y ago
      If people thought this desperately needed to be reported somehow, it should be a report to the medical licensing board - the prescriber is the one who made the decision that she should take it, and it’s their medical decision making being questioned. Of course that would probably lead to doctors refusing to prescribe anything to pregnant women.
    - falcolas 2y ago
      I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying here, but "many people really really want to criminalize using drugs while pregnant" is a much broader statement than a pregnant woman taking prescribed medications. That is what I was referring to.
jimt1234 2y ago
Also, CPS is a joke: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40379325#40381801 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40379325#40381801
falcolas 2y ago
It's a touch off topic, but you should ask a woman how often they are given a pregnancy test. With or without their consent, and even if they're physically incapable of having children as documented in their chart.

lazyasciiart 2y ago

Because many people really really want to criminalize using drugs while pregnant. Some states already have. Edit: Washington state updated their state guidelines so that if a baby tests positive for opiates and they match a prescribed medication the mother is taking then they don’t need to make a report to CPS. You literally had news articles screaming that babies would die because of this change. e.g this article is a good example of the coverage: mostly they never even explained that it had to be a prescribed drug to get out of reporting https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/wa-hospitals-no-longer-required-to-report-all-substance-exposed-infants/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/wa-hospital...

falcolas 2y ago
Being fair, I've seen the effect mere alcohol has on a child first hand. It's not subtle, and it is debilitating for the child in the long run. Can you imagine your child being addicted to meth coming out of the womb, and how it affected their development? There's a lot of prescription drugs that doctors will take pregnant women off due to the impact it can have on the fetus. To the point where it could kill the mother (thinking mostly of long-term cancer treatments for this use-case).
- jimt1234 2y ago
  I get that, but why doesn't any of this fall on dudes? Yes, mothers actually "give birth", but focusing punishment only on mothers implies that dudes lack accountability in the birthing process, like, "Here ya go. Here's some sperm. It's all on you now." Sorry, not trying to be argumentative. But I'm just kinda passionate about this stuff. And I don't even have any kids! LOL
  - Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
    dudes dont have babies, man
    - falcolas 2y ago
      No, they certainly do not. But they are directly involved in causing pregnancies. They are directly involved in the cause of everything a woman goes through prior to giving birth.
  - doubled112 2y ago
    I can be fall down drunk 24x7 the whole 10 months my wife is pregnant. Not going to affect the baby. Also, can I decide what my wife puts in her body?
    - falcolas 2y ago
      > I can be fall down drunk 24x7 the whole 10 months my wife is pregnant. Not going to affect the baby. Ironically, it probably will. Having a husband be that drunk would likely stress the mother, which does indeed affect the baby. > Also, can I decide what my wife puts in her body? If you're a husband whose judgement and word she can trust, I'd assume that she would take your opinions quite seriously.
  - falcolas 2y ago
    > "Here ya go. Here's some sperm. It's all on you now." This is definitely a problem. There's remarkably little accountability for a man's role in the shit a woman has to go through while pregnant and giving birth. I don't know what to do about that though. Start child care payments backdated to conception if they leave? Base their child care costs on their earnings when they decided to have sex?
- lazyasciiart 2y ago
  I’m a foster parent so yes, I can imagine it. But more relevantly - we are talking about prescription drugs that a doctor did not take the mother off. If there are risks, the prescribing medical professional is perfectly well set up to know about them. CPS doesn’t need to be involved.
  - lazyasciiart 2y ago
    If people thought this desperately needed to be reported somehow, it should be a report to the medical licensing board - the prescriber is the one who made the decision that she should take it, and it’s their medical decision making being questioned. Of course that would probably lead to doctors refusing to prescribe anything to pregnant women.
  - falcolas 2y ago
    I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying here, but "many people really really want to criminalize using drugs while pregnant" is a much broader statement than a pregnant woman taking prescribed medications. That is what I was referring to.

jimt1234 2y ago

Also, CPS is a joke: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40379325#40381801 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40379325#40381801

falcolas 2y ago

It's a touch off topic, but you should ask a woman how often they are given a pregnancy test. With or without their consent, and even if they're physically incapable of having children as documented in their chart.