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Apple is engaging in feature-bloat to protect the $1000 price point. That's all that's going on here. Phones (particularly iPhones0 have stubbornly resisted ge

by jmyeet 2y ago

Apple is engaging in feature-bloat to protect the $1000 price point. That's all that's going on here. Phones (particularly iPhones0 have stubbornly resisted getting cheaper. That's by design. Features get added simply to make it more expensive. We saw this with the Macbooks about a decade ago. The Macbook Air was fantastic because it was cheap. For Apple it was too cheap. So we got Touch bar. Did it solve any user problems? No. I know a few will say they like it but it was a dismal failure. The only reason the Touch Bar existed was to make Macbooks more expensive. I have been frustrated with subsequent iOS updates because it gets less and less intuitive. Even Safari has a lot of touch points on the screen that do stuff I don't care about. On the iPad there's now split screen. I bet you've triggered this acccidentally or had to solve this for a friend or relative who had. We replaced private browsing mode with "tab groups". Does anyone actually need this? If you don't (and I would posit that's most people) then it's now an extra tap to switch modes. Cut and paste just seems to get worse and worse. It tries to be cleve by selecting a word. It can be difficult and involve several taps to get around this. The original implementation of this was (IMHO) far superior and more intuitive.

gerash 2y ago
I haven't had a Mac with touch bar but I can see the point of the idea: You have a keyboard and mouse as inputs to a Mac. why not a mini touch screen as well? but instead of rendering the app content there you render the controls. this way you don't need to remember shortcuts because common actions for an app are displayed there. IMO the idea makes sense but needs further refinement in execution. maybe even better haptic feedback
- jmyeet 2y ago
  This ignores the issue that physical keys have tacticle feedback that touch screens do not. This is a big issue with modern cars (particularly Teslas). People generally hate touch screens because you have to look at them to use them. For driving in particular, that's a real problem. Compare this to a more normal car where you can feel the AC button or the volume or whatever. Companies like touch screens because it lets them punt on UI/UX design and selecting controls, which means they basically never get done. It's purely a cost issue. Now with Macbooks, I did like that I could slide my finger for the volume. That's it. And that wasn't worth losing the Escape key for. Or function keys for that matter. But that's so specific that I'd rather just have a volume control. A slider would be ideal but that takes up a lot of space. The best compromise is a "roller" (like on the Corsair K70 keyboard) as you can get precision and speed. You absolutely don't want to repeatedly hit a volume up or down button.
  - gerash 2y ago
    I agree that the top row on a macbook keyboard shouldn't be replaced because some of the keys are essential there. I'm imagining a touch screen right next to the trackpad that displays the short cuts to common functions of the current app that's open. For example, I don't mind having common controls of, say Google sheets or Photoshop near the keyboard. Maybe the trackpad could be that touchscreen. idk but I feel there's something to explore in this space. Or alternatively, individual keys on a keyboard can be LCD screens and show you app specific controls. this way you get the haptic feedback too.
    - lkois 2y ago
      So basically a stream deck. Those things are pretty tempting, I must admit. When similar functions are shrunk down and integrated into regular keyboards, my wallet will be in trouble. Although this reminds me, my old Logitech G15 from 2008 already had an LCD screen and a bunch of app-customisable buttons.
tpmoney 2y ago
Ridiculous, iPhones are getting cheaper all the time. Yesterday a base model iPhone 15 was $799, today it's $699. In 2022 a base model iPhone 14 was also $799, today that same phone is $599. Sure today the iPhone 15 is no longer the top of the line model, but that phone is absolutely cheaper today than it was yesterday, and if it was good enough at that price yesterday, there's no reason it's not good enough at a cheaper price today. Either the new features are compelling additions that make it worth spending more money on or they're added "simply to make it more expensive", in which case the 15 is right there, 12.5% cheaper today than it was 24 hours ago. > The Macbook Air was fantastic because it was cheap. For Apple it was too cheap. So we got Touch bar. Did it solve any user problems? Do you remember the same Macbook Air I do? The first one was $1,799 retail, and probably the biggest complaint in reviews was that it was too expensive for what it was. The MBA didn't drop below $1000 until 4 revisions later with the introduction of the 11 inch model. In 2014 that dropped to $899 for the 11 inch model. The cheapest the 13 inch model ever got was $999 for the last intel and the first M1 model. Today it's $1099, hardly a change from the "too cheap" $999 of its heyday. Also to the best of my knowledge, no MBAs shipped with a touch bar.
- jmyeet 2y ago
  You would really do yourself a favor if you weren't so combative, aggressive and overly pedantic. > iPhones are getting heaper all the time. Yesterday a base model iPhone 15 was $799, today it's $699. Last year's model. It's going to have a year less life in terms of software support too. It should be $100 less. Probably more. You are (probably intentionally) missing the point. > Do you remember the same Macbook Air I do? The very first one in 2008 was a POS. The good one was released in 2010-2011, which simply needed a newer screen in later models but Apple pushed the POS 12" Macbook instead, because the 2010-2014 (2015?) MBA was simply too cheap (for Apple) to be interested in. > Also to the best of my knowledge, no MBAs shipped with a touch bar. MBPs shipped with a Touch Bar. Stop being overly pedantic. That's actually the point. They killed the old MBA form factor and replaced it with one they could charge more for. The 12" Macbook wasn't a replacement (too many compromises like only one port). They eventually had to bring the MBA back because it was such a good compromise between price, power, size and weight.
kietay 2y ago
The MacBook Air never had a Touch Bar

by jmyeet 2y ago

gerash 2y ago

I haven't had a Mac with touch bar but I can see the point of the idea: You have a keyboard and mouse as inputs to a Mac. why not a mini touch screen as well? but instead of rendering the app content there you render the controls. this way you don't need to remember shortcuts because common actions for an app are displayed there. IMO the idea makes sense but needs further refinement in execution. maybe even better haptic feedback

jmyeet 2y ago
This ignores the issue that physical keys have tacticle feedback that touch screens do not. This is a big issue with modern cars (particularly Teslas). People generally hate touch screens because you have to look at them to use them. For driving in particular, that's a real problem. Compare this to a more normal car where you can feel the AC button or the volume or whatever. Companies like touch screens because it lets them punt on UI/UX design and selecting controls, which means they basically never get done. It's purely a cost issue. Now with Macbooks, I did like that I could slide my finger for the volume. That's it. And that wasn't worth losing the Escape key for. Or function keys for that matter. But that's so specific that I'd rather just have a volume control. A slider would be ideal but that takes up a lot of space. The best compromise is a "roller" (like on the Corsair K70 keyboard) as you can get precision and speed. You absolutely don't want to repeatedly hit a volume up or down button.
- gerash 2y ago
  I agree that the top row on a macbook keyboard shouldn't be replaced because some of the keys are essential there. I'm imagining a touch screen right next to the trackpad that displays the short cuts to common functions of the current app that's open. For example, I don't mind having common controls of, say Google sheets or Photoshop near the keyboard. Maybe the trackpad could be that touchscreen. idk but I feel there's something to explore in this space. Or alternatively, individual keys on a keyboard can be LCD screens and show you app specific controls. this way you get the haptic feedback too.
  - lkois 2y ago
    So basically a stream deck. Those things are pretty tempting, I must admit. When similar functions are shrunk down and integrated into regular keyboards, my wallet will be in trouble. Although this reminds me, my old Logitech G15 from 2008 already had an LCD screen and a bunch of app-customisable buttons.

tpmoney 2y ago

Ridiculous, iPhones are getting cheaper all the time. Yesterday a base model iPhone 15 was $799, today it's $699. In 2022 a base model iPhone 14 was also $799, today that same phone is $599. Sure today the iPhone 15 is no longer the top of the line model, but that phone is absolutely cheaper today than it was yesterday, and if it was good enough at that price yesterday, there's no reason it's not good enough at a cheaper price today. Either the new features are compelling additions that make it worth spending more money on or they're added "simply to make it more expensive", in which case the 15 is right there, 12.5% cheaper today than it was 24 hours ago. > The Macbook Air was fantastic because it was cheap. For Apple it was too cheap. So we got Touch bar. Did it solve any user problems? Do you remember the same Macbook Air I do? The first one was $1,799 retail, and probably the biggest complaint in reviews was that it was too expensive for what it was. The MBA didn't drop below $1000 until 4 revisions later with the introduction of the 11 inch model. In 2014 that dropped to $899 for the 11 inch model. The cheapest the 13 inch model ever got was $999 for the last intel and the first M1 model. Today it's $1099, hardly a change from the "too cheap" $999 of its heyday. Also to the best of my knowledge, no MBAs shipped with a touch bar.

jmyeet 2y ago
You would really do yourself a favor if you weren't so combative, aggressive and overly pedantic. > iPhones are getting heaper all the time. Yesterday a base model iPhone 15 was $799, today it's $699. Last year's model. It's going to have a year less life in terms of software support too. It should be $100 less. Probably more. You are (probably intentionally) missing the point. > Do you remember the same Macbook Air I do? The very first one in 2008 was a POS. The good one was released in 2010-2011, which simply needed a newer screen in later models but Apple pushed the POS 12" Macbook instead, because the 2010-2014 (2015?) MBA was simply too cheap (for Apple) to be interested in. > Also to the best of my knowledge, no MBAs shipped with a touch bar. MBPs shipped with a Touch Bar. Stop being overly pedantic. That's actually the point. They killed the old MBA form factor and replaced it with one they could charge more for. The 12" Macbook wasn't a replacement (too many compromises like only one port). They eventually had to bring the MBA back because it was such a good compromise between price, power, size and weight.

kietay 2y ago

The MacBook Air never had a Touch Bar