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> "all done on device" and on cloud The real indicator for me is: how many of these features are not available in the EU due to privacy concerns. Do we know th

by thih9 2y ago

> "all done on device" and on cloud The real indicator for me is: how many of these features are not available in the EU due to privacy concerns. Do we know that?

bengale 2y ago
It’s all Apple Intelligence and that’s not coming to the EU currently.
- akmarinov 2y ago
  They said France next year, so i guess they’re working through it
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - manmal 2y ago
    I think they say French (the language), but that might be for people outside the EU. German is notably missing from their list, though it’s a bigger market for Apple than French.
a13n 2y ago
lots of the US has similar legislation to GDPR at this point, e.g CCPA
eptcyka 2y ago
Privacy concerns? They're just trying to bully the EU. There's no legal or technical reason iOS 18's remote access features wouldn't work in EU, but alas, they do not.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > no legal or technical reason iOS 18's remote access features wouldn't work in EU How do you know that? (How much of your net worth are you willing to bet on it?) Between GDPR, the DMA and now the AI Act, there is a lot of unique regulatory cross section that Apple has in the EU. It would be surprising if there weren't additional legal checks it had to do, internally and on its suppliers, before launching a product or feature in the EU.
  - eptcyka 2y ago
    Because the same exact tech, remote desktop access on macOS, has been working fine for years. That's how I know this has nothing to do with DMA, GDPR and the AI act. Yes, there might be AI features that are gatekept due to DMA and GDPR, cool, that is kind of understandable. But they also threw a hissy fit and excluded the EU from having lots of unrelated functionality. Or, maybe, they're really doing something horribly wrong if they can't be in compliance with GDPR when sharing a screen of your phone on your macbook.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > the same exact tech, remote desktop access on macOS, has been working fine for years. That's how I know this has nothing to do with DMA Apple just got dinged under the DMA [1][2]. The text of the law may not have changed, but the reality of its meaning has. > they're really doing something horribly wrong if they can't be in compliance with GDPR The point is verifying you are in compliance with a law has costs. Plenty of start-ups, for instance, are better off geoblocking jurisdictions they don't have the resources to comply with but don't want to accidentally do something illegal in. Not because they think they're violating anything. But because it isn't worth losing (a) nimbleness over or (b) future access to. (Common ones being the EU, China and India.) Apple isn't a start-up. But they probably don't want their design team to be half staffed with lawyers either. [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/01/apple-announces-changes-to-ios-safari-and-the-app-store-in-the-european-union/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/01/apple-announces-chang... [2] https://www.beuc.eu/sites/default/files/publications/BEUC-X-2024-062_Summary-non-compliance-reports-gatekeepers.pdf https://www.beuc.eu/sites/default/files/publications/BEUC-X-...
      - eptcyka 2y ago
        The document you are referencing has no mention of remote access to a phone. The fact that apple chooses to gatekeep unrelated features and seemingly cites EU regulation to explain this behavior is just absurd. And the amount of people coming to their defense is equally absurd. Have you even understood my main gripe? If Apple feels it is unable to comply with EU regulations with apple intelligence, I can understand that given the amount of raw data that is required to deliver the current generation of AI products. But to then turn around and cite the same regulation when it comes to features that are completely unrelated to data gobbling is mindblowingly stupid, and to me, definitely feels like a tactic to gaslight the consumers in the EU, to try and turn them against this legislation.
- daedrdev 2y ago
  Its straight up unclear what compliance means in the EU, by design as they literally decided to figure out what the law they already passed later
- fundad 2y ago
  I don't even think it's a question anymore, they opted out of new features on non-European handsets. Gemini is probably already on Nokia phones for all we know.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> real indicator for me is: how many of these features are not available in the EU due to privacy concerns Lawyers and lobbyists are still getting their heads around the EU's AI Act [1]. [1] https://artificialintelligenceact.eu/high-level-summary/ https://artificialintelligenceact.eu/high-level-summary/
jcz_nz 2y ago
EU ruled that Apple cannot link components. This suggests that Apple would need to provide API’s to allow competitors to be listed alongside the “Apple AI”, or any device to enable screen remote control (ala remote iPhone control). If you’re a dev, you might appreciate why that is an absolute PIA from a software perspective. Since they want to bring these features to market ASAP, launching now and foregoing the EU is a sensible step. Huxley sends his regards, really.

by thih9 2y ago

> "all done on device" and on cloud The real indicator for me is: how many of these features are not available in the EU due to privacy concerns. Do we know that?

bengale 2y ago

It’s all Apple Intelligence and that’s not coming to the EU currently.

akmarinov 2y ago
They said France next year, so i guess they’re working through it
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- manmal 2y ago
  I think they say French (the language), but that might be for people outside the EU. German is notably missing from their list, though it’s a bigger market for Apple than French.

a13n 2y ago

lots of the US has similar legislation to GDPR at this point, e.g CCPA

eptcyka 2y ago

Privacy concerns? They're just trying to bully the EU. There's no legal or technical reason iOS 18's remote access features wouldn't work in EU, but alas, they do not.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> no legal or technical reason iOS 18's remote access features wouldn't work in EU How do you know that? (How much of your net worth are you willing to bet on it?) Between GDPR, the DMA and now the AI Act, there is a lot of unique regulatory cross section that Apple has in the EU. It would be surprising if there weren't additional legal checks it had to do, internally and on its suppliers, before launching a product or feature in the EU.
- eptcyka 2y ago
  Because the same exact tech, remote desktop access on macOS, has been working fine for years. That's how I know this has nothing to do with DMA, GDPR and the AI act. Yes, there might be AI features that are gatekept due to DMA and GDPR, cool, that is kind of understandable. But they also threw a hissy fit and excluded the EU from having lots of unrelated functionality. Or, maybe, they're really doing something horribly wrong if they can't be in compliance with GDPR when sharing a screen of your phone on your macbook.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > the same exact tech, remote desktop access on macOS, has been working fine for years. That's how I know this has nothing to do with DMA Apple just got dinged under the DMA [1][2]. The text of the law may not have changed, but the reality of its meaning has. > they're really doing something horribly wrong if they can't be in compliance with GDPR The point is verifying you are in compliance with a law has costs. Plenty of start-ups, for instance, are better off geoblocking jurisdictions they don't have the resources to comply with but don't want to accidentally do something illegal in. Not because they think they're violating anything. But because it isn't worth losing (a) nimbleness over or (b) future access to. (Common ones being the EU, China and India.) Apple isn't a start-up. But they probably don't want their design team to be half staffed with lawyers either. [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/01/apple-announces-changes-to-ios-safari-and-the-app-store-in-the-european-union/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/01/apple-announces-chang... [2] https://www.beuc.eu/sites/default/files/publications/BEUC-X-2024-062_Summary-non-compliance-reports-gatekeepers.pdf https://www.beuc.eu/sites/default/files/publications/BEUC-X-...
    - eptcyka 2y ago
      The document you are referencing has no mention of remote access to a phone. The fact that apple chooses to gatekeep unrelated features and seemingly cites EU regulation to explain this behavior is just absurd. And the amount of people coming to their defense is equally absurd. Have you even understood my main gripe? If Apple feels it is unable to comply with EU regulations with apple intelligence, I can understand that given the amount of raw data that is required to deliver the current generation of AI products. But to then turn around and cite the same regulation when it comes to features that are completely unrelated to data gobbling is mindblowingly stupid, and to me, definitely feels like a tactic to gaslight the consumers in the EU, to try and turn them against this legislation.
daedrdev 2y ago
Its straight up unclear what compliance means in the EU, by design as they literally decided to figure out what the law they already passed later
fundad 2y ago
I don't even think it's a question anymore, they opted out of new features on non-European handsets. Gemini is probably already on Nokia phones for all we know.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> real indicator for me is: how many of these features are not available in the EU due to privacy concerns Lawyers and lobbyists are still getting their heads around the EU's AI Act [1]. [1] https://artificialintelligenceact.eu/high-level-summary/ https://artificialintelligenceact.eu/high-level-summary/

jcz_nz 2y ago

EU ruled that Apple cannot link components. This suggests that Apple would need to provide API’s to allow competitors to be listed alongside the “Apple AI”, or any device to enable screen remote control (ala remote iPhone control). If you’re a dev, you might appreciate why that is an absolute PIA from a software perspective. Since they want to bring these features to market ASAP, launching now and foregoing the EU is a sensible step. Huxley sends his regards, really.