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The Pro variant is unusually poorly differentiated from the base model this cycle: https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/ https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/

The Pro variant is unusually poorly differentiated from the base model this cycle: https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/ https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/ The 13 Pro had ProMotion, 14 Pro had Dynamic Island and Always On display, the 15 Pro had USB-C and the Action Button, the 16 Pro...has maybe slightly faster AI? 4k120fps video? USB-C w/ USB 3? Not things most people would care about. ProMotion/Always On is still limited to the Pro models which is enough to justfy the upcharge, but it's a surprise they aren't locking a new feature this time.

alkonaut 2y ago
The 5x (vs 2x) optical zoom will also convince a few to go for the Pro. Isn’t the price difference smaller than previous models too?
- dudus 2y ago
  The extra optical zoom has been THE defining feature that pushes PRO to most users. It's a feature enjoyed by anyone and everyone.
  - jahnu 2y ago
    It basically saves some people into photography having to buy an additional compact camera.
  - pradn 2y ago
    The optical zoom on the Pro is so good! I often zoom in 3-5x and still get great results. I've gotten comments from people saying they thought photos of far off building features, etc, were taken with a DSLR. It's a no-brainer to get the Pro for this reason, if you care about photos.
    - panarky 2y ago
      Really thought they'd upgrade from 12MP to 48MP on the telephoto. iPhone 16 Pro matched the Pixel's 5x optical zoom, but weirdly it remains stuck at 12MP.
      - jazzyjackson 2y ago
        It might be a 48MP sensor that produces 12MP readout after pixel binning. That's how the sensors on the Sony Xperia 1 work. Does Apple use Sony sensors? I vaguely remember that being a thing.
      - pradn 2y ago
        If image sensor / lens system quality are orthogonal to the final megapixel output, why bother with 48MP output JPEGs? They take up more space, so the practical benefit to smaller files is there.
      - themulticaster 2y ago
        When it comes to exchangeable lens cameras (DSLRs/DSLMs), as you increase the number of pixels you very quickly reach a point where you're limited by the optical performance of the lens instead of the sensor. Lots of systems offer a choice between a 24MP and a high pixel count camera (e.g. Nikon Z6/Z7), and you'll find that the high pixel count sibling requires very good lenses to actually achieve a meaningful improvement over 24MP. For these cameras, common wisdom says to stay with 24MP apart from certain niche use cases. In other words, I wouldn't expect a improvement in capturing actual 48MP pictures in phone cameras, apart perhaps from pixel binning to a smaller size and similar techniques. Disclaimer: I haven't followed camera tech very closely recently, and I'm not an expert. Take my opinion with a grain of salt.
- rconti 2y ago
  $200 more for the base pro, but looking at trade-in values for my 14, you get half of that back.....
- slaymaker1907 2y ago
  I'm by no means a professional photographer, but better zoom is definitely a big selling point.
- janandonly 2y ago
  The previous model 15 pro already has 3x, so it’s a jump from 3x to 5x. Not enough for me to upgrade already, but a good feature if you like photography or videography.
- rqtwteye 2y ago
  Is this a real zoom or just a fixed lens with longer focal length? I have read that the 13 Pro does digital zoom between 1x and 2.9x and only at 3x the 3x lens kicks in. So if you have a 5x lens you get digital zoom over an even longer range. So you may end up with worse image quality over a wider range. Is this correct?
  - jmb99 2y ago
    That is correct. I treat my 15 Pro like having a set of prime lenses at varying lengths, and so only use 0.5x (13mm), 1x (24mm), 2x (48mm, which is 12MP out of the main camera’s 48MP), or 3x (77mm). In theory, anything between 1x and 2x should be non-digital zoom, but a crop of the 1x 48MP sensor. Anything between 0.5x and 1x, over 2x and less than 3x, or over 3x is digital zoom (crop + upscale). (For the 15 Pro Max, and I assume upcoming 16 Pro models, replace 3x with 5x) As far as I know, Sony is the only company making phones with “actual” optical zoom, and not just a bunch of primes.
  - alkonaut 2y ago
    I'd hope it's just a "set of primes" with interpolation/digital zoom between them. At least I wouldn't want to have something that I drop on the floor on regular intervals to have a movable lens assembly that needs micrometer alignment because it's 48mp spread out over just a couple of mm.
Kirby64 2y ago
15 and 15 Pro both had USB-C. The 15 pro just has USB3 capable USB-C (15 regular was USB2 only). Seems like they're keeping that differentiation, which I suppose makes sense given the USB3 PHY is a considerable die cost.
- jsheard 2y ago
  > USB3 PHY is a considerable die cost Is it actually a different die though? The A18 and A18 Pro are so close in specs, with the same 6 CPU cores, same 16 NPU cores and only 5 vs. 6 GPU cores that I would guess that they are the very same die just with one GPU cluster and USB3 switched off in the non-Pro version.
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    On the 15 series it was since they used different chip generations. No idea on the new 16 series, we’ll have to wait for die shots from teardown groups.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - dagmx 2y ago
    In the presentation they said they’re separate dies with different features available on the Pro, that aren’t on the base SoC.
  - brookst 2y ago
    Yes, different dies. The Pro also has a more advanced NPU and massively more IO bandwidth to process 4K120 video.
  - Aaargh20318 2y ago
    They mentioned the Pro also has a larger CPU cache.
  - nabla9 2y ago
    A18 Pro is also faster. Typically the speed and 5 vs 6 core difference would use the same die and selecting Pro chips during testing. Chips that tolerate heat better become pro-model chips. The rumor was that they are different dies. It seems strange because both are made with the same 2nd generation 3nm architecture.
veber-alex 2y ago
The 16 Pro has a bigger display. Each model now has a different display size. You can choose between 6.1", 6.3", 6.7" and 6.9"
- evilfred 2y ago
  this part is really frustrating. I want to upgrade from my 13 Pro and have 120Hz but 6.7" is huge
  - jsheard 2y ago
    They've trimmed the bezels enough that the 13 Pro and 16 Pro are exactly the same width despite the bigger screen, and the 16 is only a few mm taller. https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-13-Pro,Apple-iPhone-16-Pro/phones/11635,12239 https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-13-Pro,A...
    - robertoandred 2y ago
      It's already almost impossible to reach the top of the screen. "Only a few mm taller" is nothing but worse.
    - adrr 2y ago
      It's not the phone size, its the reach for my fingers. I can't reach the top left corner with my thumb on these larger screens and UI/UX people keep putting the hamburger for the navigation in that spot.
      - selykg 2y ago
        I'm sure you're aware of this, but bringing it up in case you aren't. On newer Face ID models, you can swipe down on the bottom of the screen (the little grey bar) and it'll toggle the reachability feature so the top of the screen comes into the middle of the display. Basically shoving everything down. I understand it's not ideal, but I find it a valuable feature when I must operate one handed and sometimes struggle with the same issue.
microtonal 2y ago
For me 60Hz on the base model is now a deal breaker. Even our daughter's 300 Euro A54 has a 120Hz screen (though not LTPO). Once you are used to 120Hz on a touch device, it's hard to go back (different on a relatively static computer screen, where I prefer having the high DPI of 5k 27"). So, it's iPhone Pro models until the base model gets >60Hz too.
- ahoka 2y ago
  Same as the 8GB Macs, ridiculous.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Same as the 8GB Macs, ridiculous My mom doesn't need more than 8GB RAM. Overengineering is still bad engineering.
    - nox101 2y ago
      I generally find the opposite. Experts know how to deal with limited memory. They benefit from more but they understand the tradeoffs. Non-experts get all kinds of bad experiences not realizing the issue is their machine is underpowered. Maybe 8GB ram is enough for your mom but know lots of non-techies suffering with underpowered machines.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Non-experts get all kinds of bad experiences not realizing the issue is their machine is underpowered As always, it depends on how the machine is being used. The encompasses both intent and habits. Someone who will install ad-spam toolbars will chew through all the memory in the world. That doesn't change the fact that they're largely using their device to e-mail, read news and occasionally open a spreadsheet.
        nox101 2y ago
        The people I've seen with underpowered machines, wait 5 minutes for them to boot since they are both slow (celeron) and low-mem (so swapping 10-15 times while booting). They they take minutes to launch apps (like open a spreadsheet). It doesn't matter than they're only using their device to e-mail, read news, and occasionally open a spreadsheet. In fact, reading news is arguably a memory and perf hog. 100s of large images, plus video, etc... taxes any low-powered/low-memory machine. It's bad enough on a fast machine that doesn't slow down but is still covered in ads on the news page. But it's horryfing on an under-powered/under-memory machine.
paulpan 2y ago
Are there new hardware features announced for the 16 Pro? Apple definitely would love to add an exclusive feature but it seems like negligible pickings. The "Fusion" or "tetraprism" camera is the only other one that comes to mind. Fundamentally Apple wants to leverage their supply chain to maximize shared parts between the Pro and base iPhones. Lack of hardware innovations makes it hard to create product differentiation. Heck, even the A18 Pro chip seems a marginal upgrade over the base A18 chip: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/09/apples-a18-chip-designed-for-apple-intelligence-from-the-ground-up/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/09/apples-a18-chip-desi...
reliableturing 2y ago
I agree but I already planned to upgrade to a 16 Pro up from my 12. Biggest thing I’m looking forward to? Battery life. In the announcement they said “big boost”, and looking at the comparison page I will go from 17h video playback to 27h. That’s not even including the battery degradation I built up in the last 4 years. I’m practically going to double my battery life.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  Damn you can only watch 13 hours of video content per day now? Rough.
  - reliableturing 2y ago
    I know, really looking forward to watching 27h of video in a day
    - kachapopopow 2y ago
      If you plug in for 10 minutes you can watch 41h of video in a day!
jjtheblunt 2y ago
Are you assuming the upgrade 'stride' is 1, whereas perhaps the normal user does not upgrade more often than every 3rd model?
- minimaxir 2y ago
  This isn't related to the user update cycle discussions, just pointing out it's odd that Apple has always locked a new feature/hardware to a higher SKU to help price discriminate but here it's weaker.
tiffanyh 2y ago
Here’s the link you intended: https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone-16-pro,iphone-16 https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone-16-pr...
jhawk28 2y ago
Lidar is only on Pro.
echoangle 2y ago
The 15 non-Pro also had USB C, the main differences were action button and camera
rekoil 2y ago
Titanium frame, better battery life, 120Hz display refresh rate, better camera, 5x optical zoom, LiDAR.
- deergomoo 2y ago
  > better camera Better ultrawide, but from the comparison page on Apple’s website it would appear the main sensors on both are the same?
deergomoo 2y ago
> ProMotion/Always On is still limited to the Pro models Always On is on the base model this year too
- minimaxir 2y ago
  No it isn't, check the comparison link. Always On depends on ProMotion for 1Hz refresh.
  - deergomoo 2y ago
    Hm, turns out Apple's site had this wrong for a short while on the comparison page. Shame.

alkonaut 2y ago

The 5x (vs 2x) optical zoom will also convince a few to go for the Pro. Isn’t the price difference smaller than previous models too?

dudus 2y ago
The extra optical zoom has been THE defining feature that pushes PRO to most users. It's a feature enjoyed by anyone and everyone.
- jahnu 2y ago
  It basically saves some people into photography having to buy an additional compact camera.
- pradn 2y ago
  The optical zoom on the Pro is so good! I often zoom in 3-5x and still get great results. I've gotten comments from people saying they thought photos of far off building features, etc, were taken with a DSLR. It's a no-brainer to get the Pro for this reason, if you care about photos.
  - panarky 2y ago
    Really thought they'd upgrade from 12MP to 48MP on the telephoto. iPhone 16 Pro matched the Pixel's 5x optical zoom, but weirdly it remains stuck at 12MP.
    - jazzyjackson 2y ago
      It might be a 48MP sensor that produces 12MP readout after pixel binning. That's how the sensors on the Sony Xperia 1 work. Does Apple use Sony sensors? I vaguely remember that being a thing.
    - pradn 2y ago
      If image sensor / lens system quality are orthogonal to the final megapixel output, why bother with 48MP output JPEGs? They take up more space, so the practical benefit to smaller files is there.
    - themulticaster 2y ago
      When it comes to exchangeable lens cameras (DSLRs/DSLMs), as you increase the number of pixels you very quickly reach a point where you're limited by the optical performance of the lens instead of the sensor. Lots of systems offer a choice between a 24MP and a high pixel count camera (e.g. Nikon Z6/Z7), and you'll find that the high pixel count sibling requires very good lenses to actually achieve a meaningful improvement over 24MP. For these cameras, common wisdom says to stay with 24MP apart from certain niche use cases. In other words, I wouldn't expect a improvement in capturing actual 48MP pictures in phone cameras, apart perhaps from pixel binning to a smaller size and similar techniques. Disclaimer: I haven't followed camera tech very closely recently, and I'm not an expert. Take my opinion with a grain of salt.
rconti 2y ago
$200 more for the base pro, but looking at trade-in values for my 14, you get half of that back.....
slaymaker1907 2y ago
I'm by no means a professional photographer, but better zoom is definitely a big selling point.
janandonly 2y ago
The previous model 15 pro already has 3x, so it’s a jump from 3x to 5x. Not enough for me to upgrade already, but a good feature if you like photography or videography.
rqtwteye 2y ago
Is this a real zoom or just a fixed lens with longer focal length? I have read that the 13 Pro does digital zoom between 1x and 2.9x and only at 3x the 3x lens kicks in. So if you have a 5x lens you get digital zoom over an even longer range. So you may end up with worse image quality over a wider range. Is this correct?
- jmb99 2y ago
  That is correct. I treat my 15 Pro like having a set of prime lenses at varying lengths, and so only use 0.5x (13mm), 1x (24mm), 2x (48mm, which is 12MP out of the main camera’s 48MP), or 3x (77mm). In theory, anything between 1x and 2x should be non-digital zoom, but a crop of the 1x 48MP sensor. Anything between 0.5x and 1x, over 2x and less than 3x, or over 3x is digital zoom (crop + upscale). (For the 15 Pro Max, and I assume upcoming 16 Pro models, replace 3x with 5x) As far as I know, Sony is the only company making phones with “actual” optical zoom, and not just a bunch of primes.
- alkonaut 2y ago
  I'd hope it's just a "set of primes" with interpolation/digital zoom between them. At least I wouldn't want to have something that I drop on the floor on regular intervals to have a movable lens assembly that needs micrometer alignment because it's 48mp spread out over just a couple of mm.

Kirby64 2y ago

15 and 15 Pro both had USB-C. The 15 pro just has USB3 capable USB-C (15 regular was USB2 only). Seems like they're keeping that differentiation, which I suppose makes sense given the USB3 PHY is a considerable die cost.

jsheard 2y ago
> USB3 PHY is a considerable die cost Is it actually a different die though? The A18 and A18 Pro are so close in specs, with the same 6 CPU cores, same 16 NPU cores and only 5 vs. 6 GPU cores that I would guess that they are the very same die just with one GPU cluster and USB3 switched off in the non-Pro version.
- Kirby64 2y ago
  On the 15 series it was since they used different chip generations. No idea on the new 16 series, we’ll have to wait for die shots from teardown groups.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- dagmx 2y ago
  In the presentation they said they’re separate dies with different features available on the Pro, that aren’t on the base SoC.
- brookst 2y ago
  Yes, different dies. The Pro also has a more advanced NPU and massively more IO bandwidth to process 4K120 video.
- Aaargh20318 2y ago
  They mentioned the Pro also has a larger CPU cache.
- nabla9 2y ago
  A18 Pro is also faster. Typically the speed and 5 vs 6 core difference would use the same die and selecting Pro chips during testing. Chips that tolerate heat better become pro-model chips. The rumor was that they are different dies. It seems strange because both are made with the same 2nd generation 3nm architecture.

veber-alex 2y ago

The 16 Pro has a bigger display. Each model now has a different display size. You can choose between 6.1", 6.3", 6.7" and 6.9"

evilfred 2y ago
this part is really frustrating. I want to upgrade from my 13 Pro and have 120Hz but 6.7" is huge
- jsheard 2y ago
  They've trimmed the bezels enough that the 13 Pro and 16 Pro are exactly the same width despite the bigger screen, and the 16 is only a few mm taller. https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-13-Pro,Apple-iPhone-16-Pro/phones/11635,12239 https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-13-Pro,A...
  - robertoandred 2y ago
    It's already almost impossible to reach the top of the screen. "Only a few mm taller" is nothing but worse.
  - adrr 2y ago
    It's not the phone size, its the reach for my fingers. I can't reach the top left corner with my thumb on these larger screens and UI/UX people keep putting the hamburger for the navigation in that spot.
    - selykg 2y ago
      I'm sure you're aware of this, but bringing it up in case you aren't. On newer Face ID models, you can swipe down on the bottom of the screen (the little grey bar) and it'll toggle the reachability feature so the top of the screen comes into the middle of the display. Basically shoving everything down. I understand it's not ideal, but I find it a valuable feature when I must operate one handed and sometimes struggle with the same issue.

microtonal 2y ago

For me 60Hz on the base model is now a deal breaker. Even our daughter's 300 Euro A54 has a 120Hz screen (though not LTPO). Once you are used to 120Hz on a touch device, it's hard to go back (different on a relatively static computer screen, where I prefer having the high DPI of 5k 27"). So, it's iPhone Pro models until the base model gets >60Hz too.

ahoka 2y ago
Same as the 8GB Macs, ridiculous.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Same as the 8GB Macs, ridiculous My mom doesn't need more than 8GB RAM. Overengineering is still bad engineering.
  - nox101 2y ago
    I generally find the opposite. Experts know how to deal with limited memory. They benefit from more but they understand the tradeoffs. Non-experts get all kinds of bad experiences not realizing the issue is their machine is underpowered. Maybe 8GB ram is enough for your mom but know lots of non-techies suffering with underpowered machines.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Non-experts get all kinds of bad experiences not realizing the issue is their machine is underpowered As always, it depends on how the machine is being used. The encompasses both intent and habits. Someone who will install ad-spam toolbars will chew through all the memory in the world. That doesn't change the fact that they're largely using their device to e-mail, read news and occasionally open a spreadsheet.
      - nox101 2y ago
        The people I've seen with underpowered machines, wait 5 minutes for them to boot since they are both slow (celeron) and low-mem (so swapping 10-15 times while booting). They they take minutes to launch apps (like open a spreadsheet). It doesn't matter than they're only using their device to e-mail, read news, and occasionally open a spreadsheet. In fact, reading news is arguably a memory and perf hog. 100s of large images, plus video, etc... taxes any low-powered/low-memory machine. It's bad enough on a fast machine that doesn't slow down but is still covered in ads on the news page. But it's horryfing on an under-powered/under-memory machine.

paulpan 2y ago

Are there new hardware features announced for the 16 Pro? Apple definitely would love to add an exclusive feature but it seems like negligible pickings. The "Fusion" or "tetraprism" camera is the only other one that comes to mind. Fundamentally Apple wants to leverage their supply chain to maximize shared parts between the Pro and base iPhones. Lack of hardware innovations makes it hard to create product differentiation. Heck, even the A18 Pro chip seems a marginal upgrade over the base A18 chip: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/09/apples-a18-chip-designed-for-apple-intelligence-from-the-ground-up/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/09/apples-a18-chip-desi...

reliableturing 2y ago

I agree but I already planned to upgrade to a 16 Pro up from my 12. Biggest thing I’m looking forward to? Battery life. In the announcement they said “big boost”, and looking at the comparison page I will go from 17h video playback to 27h. That’s not even including the battery degradation I built up in the last 4 years. I’m practically going to double my battery life.

jncfhnb 2y ago
Damn you can only watch 13 hours of video content per day now? Rough.
- reliableturing 2y ago
  I know, really looking forward to watching 27h of video in a day
  - kachapopopow 2y ago
    If you plug in for 10 minutes you can watch 41h of video in a day!

jjtheblunt 2y ago

Are you assuming the upgrade 'stride' is 1, whereas perhaps the normal user does not upgrade more often than every 3rd model?

minimaxir 2y ago
This isn't related to the user update cycle discussions, just pointing out it's odd that Apple has always locked a new feature/hardware to a higher SKU to help price discriminate but here it's weaker.

tiffanyh 2y ago

Here’s the link you intended: https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone-16-pro,iphone-16 https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?modelList=iphone-16-pr...

jhawk28 2y ago

Lidar is only on Pro.

echoangle 2y ago

The 15 non-Pro also had USB C, the main differences were action button and camera

rekoil 2y ago

Titanium frame, better battery life, 120Hz display refresh rate, better camera, 5x optical zoom, LiDAR.

deergomoo 2y ago
> better camera Better ultrawide, but from the comparison page on Apple’s website it would appear the main sensors on both are the same?

deergomoo 2y ago

> ProMotion/Always On is still limited to the Pro models Always On is on the base model this year too

minimaxir 2y ago
No it isn't, check the comparison link. Always On depends on ProMotion for 1Hz refresh.
- deergomoo 2y ago
  Hm, turns out Apple's site had this wrong for a short while on the comparison page. Shame.