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Why on earth are people and government stooges suddenly targeting grocery stores for collusion and price gouging? If there is an industry with a lower profit m

Why on earth are people and government stooges suddenly targeting grocery stores for collusion and price gouging? If there is an industry with a lower profit margin, I'm not aware of it.

contagiousflow 2y ago
Are you Canadian or aware of the history of Canadian grocery chains?
gruez 2y ago
cynical take: grocery prices are more salient to consumers because they see it every week, therefore governments target them to score political points with voters. That said, one of the government reports linked in the article[1] does mention that profit margins have edged up slightly, albeit on the order of 1-2 percentage points. [1] https://competition-bureau.canada.ca/how-we-foster-competition/education-and-outreach/canada-needs-more-grocery-competition https://competition-bureau.canada.ca/how-we-foster-competiti...
ziddoap 2y ago
Well, one reason is that Canada had a ~15 year bread price-fixing scandal come to light somewhat recently. And the same people that colluded on bread just so happen to sell other grocery goods. Some people think: "hey, maybe we should check out the other stuff they sell". Which seems reasonable to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_price-fixing_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_price-fixing_in_Canada From an anecdotal standpoint, when many of the groceries I buy seem to have gone up in price at a rate well outpacing inflation, I can't help but wonder what the hell is going on.
- arcticbull 2y ago
  Sure, but even during the price fixing period Loblaws' profit margin was sub-5%, and currently sits a 3.3%. Yes, it obviously shouldn't have happened, but there's no piñata of profit just waiting to be smashed apart that would magically drop grocery bills.
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    That's overall profit margin, right? So they can collude on just a few essentials, like I don't know... Bread maybe? And make an absolute killing on bread and mask those profits by claiming that their overall profits are down?
    - gruez 2y ago
      >So they can collude on just a few essentials, like I don't know... Bread maybe? And make an absolute killing on bread and mask those profits by claiming that their overall profits are down? 1. If they actually want to make a profit, surely it'd make sense to price fix some high value/volume item rather than something cheap like bread? If anything choosing to price fix bread seems more like incompetence than evil villainy. 2. The parent specifically acknowledges that price fixing isn't okay, but his contention is that overall margins is still low. Who cares if margins for a certain item is high? Are you also upset that mcdonalds make orders of magnitude higher margin on soda than burgers?
      - ziddoap 2y ago
        >If they actually want to make a profit, surely it'd make sense to price fix some value/volume item rather than something cheap like bread? Weird that they price-fixed bread for so long then. If it wasn't for profit, was it just for pure hatred of poor people or what? >If anything choosing to price fix bread seems more like incompetence than evil villainy. I don't buy "incompetence" as an excuse for a 15-year price-fixing scheme. >Who cares if margins for a certain item is high? Who cares if margins across the board are low? >Are you also upset that mcdonalds make orders of magnitude higher margin on soda than burgers? I'm upset that there is a history of collusion in the pricing of the food I have to buy to live. I support efforts to make sure more collusion is not happening.
        gruez 2y ago
        >I don't buy "incompetence" as an excuse for multiple vendors colluding on prices. I'm not sure why you're going so hard on this strawman. At no point did I argue it was okay to price fix. In fact in my previous comment I was pointing out specifically that it wasn't okay. >Who cares if margins across the board are low? >I'm upset that there is a history of collusion in the pricing of the food I have to buy to live. I support efforts to make sure more collusion is not happening. Your original claim was "many of the groceries I buy seem to have gone up in price at a rate well outpacing inflation". arcticbull's response was that grocery store margins have stayed low. That seems like a perfectly reasonable response to your claim. You also mentioned bread price fixing, but I don't think anyone is claiming "well their margins are low so price fixing doesn't exist". It's clear that he was addressing your point about overall grocery prices. In that context looking at overall inflation makes more sense than pointing out one specific item has high margins. More to the point, inflation is derived from the price changes from a basket of items. It's therefore almost guaranteed that there's going to be items that will rise higher than inflation. The mere fact that some prices are rising faster than inflation isn't evidence of collusion or price fixing.
aga98mtl 2y ago
I believe it is an elaborate psyop to shift the blame of inflation away from the government and toward a boogeyman, the "evil" grocery chains. As you point out the margins are super tight in food retail, it is impossible for it to be the cause of inflation. From the point of view of the average man however, the grocery store is exactly where he is facing inflation daily! This makes it the ideal scapegoat. The average man will never ever realize that the monetary mass surged during covid while real world production slowed down. More dollars chasing fewer goods & services equals rising prices. That monetary policy smoothed out the COVID downturn and it was a great success, but it was not a free lunch.
- ziddoap 2y ago
  >I believe it is an elaborate psyop to shift the blame of inflation away from the government and toward a boogeyman, the "evil" grocery chains In Canada, the grocery stores were caught colluding. Recently. Is it still a "boogeyman" when they were caught in a 15 year long collusion scheme?
  - gruez 2y ago
    As mentioned in the government report linked in the OP[1], grocery profits have only went up 1-2 percentage points. It's totally fair and justified to attribute that to evil grocery stores, but the rhetoric coming from politicians, journalists, or voters? Or is it something less nuanced like "greed grocery stores are driving inflation"? [1] https://competition-bureau.canada.ca/how-we-foster-competition/education-and-outreach/canada-needs-more-grocery-competition https://competition-bureau.canada.ca/how-we-foster-competiti...
  - CodeWriter23 2y ago
    What does “caught colluding” mean? If it is some of Trudeau’s stooges said so, I would not believe it for a second.
    - ziddoap 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_price-fixing_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_price-fixing_in_Canada >If it is some of Trudeau’s stooges said so, I would not believe it for a second. What a silly statement. But no, there were confessions and fines and everything!
stefan_ 2y ago
Because one thing has nothing to do with the other? US school buses look like 1950s fossils, but it's not because their makers are swimming in money.

Why on earth are people and government stooges suddenly targeting grocery stores for collusion and price gouging? If there is an industry with a lower profit margin, I'm not aware of it.

contagiousflow 2y ago

Are you Canadian or aware of the history of Canadian grocery chains?

gruez 2y ago

cynical take: grocery prices are more salient to consumers because they see it every week, therefore governments target them to score political points with voters. That said, one of the government reports linked in the article[1] does mention that profit margins have edged up slightly, albeit on the order of 1-2 percentage points. [1] https://competition-bureau.canada.ca/how-we-foster-competition/education-and-outreach/canada-needs-more-grocery-competition https://competition-bureau.canada.ca/how-we-foster-competiti...

ziddoap 2y ago

Well, one reason is that Canada had a ~15 year bread price-fixing scandal come to light somewhat recently. And the same people that colluded on bread just so happen to sell other grocery goods. Some people think: "hey, maybe we should check out the other stuff they sell". Which seems reasonable to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_price-fixing_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_price-fixing_in_Canada From an anecdotal standpoint, when many of the groceries I buy seem to have gone up in price at a rate well outpacing inflation, I can't help but wonder what the hell is going on.

arcticbull 2y ago
Sure, but even during the price fixing period Loblaws' profit margin was sub-5%, and currently sits a 3.3%. Yes, it obviously shouldn't have happened, but there's no piñata of profit just waiting to be smashed apart that would magically drop grocery bills.
- ziddoap 2y ago
  That's overall profit margin, right? So they can collude on just a few essentials, like I don't know... Bread maybe? And make an absolute killing on bread and mask those profits by claiming that their overall profits are down?
  - gruez 2y ago
    >So they can collude on just a few essentials, like I don't know... Bread maybe? And make an absolute killing on bread and mask those profits by claiming that their overall profits are down? 1. If they actually want to make a profit, surely it'd make sense to price fix some high value/volume item rather than something cheap like bread? If anything choosing to price fix bread seems more like incompetence than evil villainy. 2. The parent specifically acknowledges that price fixing isn't okay, but his contention is that overall margins is still low. Who cares if margins for a certain item is high? Are you also upset that mcdonalds make orders of magnitude higher margin on soda than burgers?
    - ziddoap 2y ago
      >If they actually want to make a profit, surely it'd make sense to price fix some value/volume item rather than something cheap like bread? Weird that they price-fixed bread for so long then. If it wasn't for profit, was it just for pure hatred of poor people or what? >If anything choosing to price fix bread seems more like incompetence than evil villainy. I don't buy "incompetence" as an excuse for a 15-year price-fixing scheme. >Who cares if margins for a certain item is high? Who cares if margins across the board are low? >Are you also upset that mcdonalds make orders of magnitude higher margin on soda than burgers? I'm upset that there is a history of collusion in the pricing of the food I have to buy to live. I support efforts to make sure more collusion is not happening.
      - gruez 2y ago
        >I don't buy "incompetence" as an excuse for multiple vendors colluding on prices. I'm not sure why you're going so hard on this strawman. At no point did I argue it was okay to price fix. In fact in my previous comment I was pointing out specifically that it wasn't okay. >Who cares if margins across the board are low? >I'm upset that there is a history of collusion in the pricing of the food I have to buy to live. I support efforts to make sure more collusion is not happening. Your original claim was "many of the groceries I buy seem to have gone up in price at a rate well outpacing inflation". arcticbull's response was that grocery store margins have stayed low. That seems like a perfectly reasonable response to your claim. You also mentioned bread price fixing, but I don't think anyone is claiming "well their margins are low so price fixing doesn't exist". It's clear that he was addressing your point about overall grocery prices. In that context looking at overall inflation makes more sense than pointing out one specific item has high margins. More to the point, inflation is derived from the price changes from a basket of items. It's therefore almost guaranteed that there's going to be items that will rise higher than inflation. The mere fact that some prices are rising faster than inflation isn't evidence of collusion or price fixing.

aga98mtl 2y ago

I believe it is an elaborate psyop to shift the blame of inflation away from the government and toward a boogeyman, the "evil" grocery chains. As you point out the margins are super tight in food retail, it is impossible for it to be the cause of inflation. From the point of view of the average man however, the grocery store is exactly where he is facing inflation daily! This makes it the ideal scapegoat. The average man will never ever realize that the monetary mass surged during covid while real world production slowed down. More dollars chasing fewer goods & services equals rising prices. That monetary policy smoothed out the COVID downturn and it was a great success, but it was not a free lunch.

ziddoap 2y ago
>I believe it is an elaborate psyop to shift the blame of inflation away from the government and toward a boogeyman, the "evil" grocery chains In Canada, the grocery stores were caught colluding. Recently. Is it still a "boogeyman" when they were caught in a 15 year long collusion scheme?
- gruez 2y ago
  As mentioned in the government report linked in the OP[1], grocery profits have only went up 1-2 percentage points. It's totally fair and justified to attribute that to evil grocery stores, but the rhetoric coming from politicians, journalists, or voters? Or is it something less nuanced like "greed grocery stores are driving inflation"? [1] https://competition-bureau.canada.ca/how-we-foster-competition/education-and-outreach/canada-needs-more-grocery-competition https://competition-bureau.canada.ca/how-we-foster-competiti...
- CodeWriter23 2y ago
  What does “caught colluding” mean? If it is some of Trudeau’s stooges said so, I would not believe it for a second.
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_price-fixing_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_price-fixing_in_Canada >If it is some of Trudeau’s stooges said so, I would not believe it for a second. What a silly statement. But no, there were confessions and fines and everything!

stefan_ 2y ago

Because one thing has nothing to do with the other? US school buses look like 1950s fossils, but it's not because their makers are swimming in money.