4 ms·

Well, apart from the often-documented regular raids from /other/ hunter-gather bands, including torture, rape, murder and slavery. Do you think, absent that $20

Well, apart from the often-documented regular raids from /other/ hunter-gather bands, including torture, rape, murder and slavery. Do you think, absent that $2000 a month mortgage, internal tribal and familial relations would not include abuses of power, including physical and sexual? Even if you think the current economic and social framework magnified or exacerbated this, can you point to systems in hunter-gather networks that would allow this to be systemically ameliorated at the same scales we now operate, and with the same resource challenges we now face? (I'd readily agree that there are differences in opinion about the levels of violence and the variation in prehistoric societies, but I think it's worth highlighted the assumptions that your statement makes about those levels.)

feedforward 2y ago
> often-documented regular raids from /other/ hunter-gather bands, including torture, rape, murder and slavery. There is no slavery in migratory hunter-gatherer bands, I can't even conceive how that would function. Slavery arose with the agricultural revolution. This is not "oft-dicumented" or even documented > internal tribal A hunter-gatherer band is not in a tribe. I am talking about migratory hunter-gatherer bands and you are talking about slave societies and then tribes.
- dannyobrien 2y ago
  I don't think what you say is correct. Just a casual search of the literature reveals fairly detailed descriptions of slavery in pre-agricultural societies. Here's one book dedicated to an analysis of slavery in the hunter-gatherer society in the Pacific Northwest: https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?title=Aboriginal+Slavery+on+the+Northwest+Coast+of+North+America&publication_year=1997& https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?title=Aboriginal+S... You can find many more, I hope! You seem to be making a strong distinction between "bands" and "tribes" that doesn't seem to be clear-cut elsewhere, which may be where we're getting confused; maybe it would be useful to just drop that element of my list, and concentrate on the other aspects of hunter-gatherer society?

feedforward 2y ago

> often-documented regular raids from /other/ hunter-gather bands, including torture, rape, murder and slavery. There is no slavery in migratory hunter-gatherer bands, I can't even conceive how that would function. Slavery arose with the agricultural revolution. This is not "oft-dicumented" or even documented > internal tribal A hunter-gatherer band is not in a tribe. I am talking about migratory hunter-gatherer bands and you are talking about slave societies and then tribes.

dannyobrien 2y ago
I don't think what you say is correct. Just a casual search of the literature reveals fairly detailed descriptions of slavery in pre-agricultural societies. Here's one book dedicated to an analysis of slavery in the hunter-gatherer society in the Pacific Northwest: https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?title=Aboriginal+Slavery+on+the+Northwest+Coast+of+North+America&publication_year=1997& https://scholar.google.com/scholar_lookup?title=Aboriginal+S... You can find many more, I hope! You seem to be making a strong distinction between "bands" and "tribes" that doesn't seem to be clear-cut elsewhere, which may be where we're getting confused; maybe it would be useful to just drop that element of my list, and concentrate on the other aspects of hunter-gatherer society?