4 ms·

I am infuriated that practically every (US) carrier claims an unlimited data plan, but then proceeds to limit your hotspot usage. It's just data. Let me use it.

I am infuriated that practically every (US) carrier claims an unlimited data plan, but then proceeds to limit your hotspot usage. It's just data. Let me use it. Yes, I know about (and sometimes use) the ttl=65 loophole, but I'd like to see a major carrier launch a truly unlimited plan.

jonpurdy 2y ago
Since you mentioned it, on MacOS when tethering: sudo sysctl -w net.inet.ip.ttl=65 When done, switch it back: sudo sysctl -w net.inet.ip.ttl=64 I went from 0.3Mbps on T-Mobile to 50+ Mbps with this; on providers that limit hotspot speed by examining TTL, this can be an effective way to get around it. (They assume if they see TTL as one lower than expected, data is passing through a hotspot/phone instead of directly from the phone.)
- LorenDB 2y ago
  Linux uses a similar command: sudo sysctl net.ipv4.ip_default_ttl=65 I assume there is an ipv6 version as well, but I haven't needed it.
  - betaby 2y ago
    net.ipv6.conf.all.hop_limit=65 + net.ipv6.conf.lo.hop_limit=65
- betaby 2y ago
  There is no harm in keeping it at 65 permanently. Unless you think that TTL somehow helps to more uniquely identify you.
  - jonpurdy 2y ago
    Good to know! I'm not a networking expert so figured leaving the default made sense just in case.
- ghotli 2y ago
  You're the real mvp on this thread. Thanks I figured this was in place but never thought through the ttl bit.
gigachadbro 2y ago
[dead]
- margana 2y ago
  You completely missed the point. There is no difference on the "shared medium" whether you use that data directly on your phone or on your PC through your phone. Also, service providers shouldn't be allowed to make false advertisements. It is not the job of the consumer to think "clearly infinite data isn't realistic, I should have no expectation to actually get infinite data even though they advertise that". If it isn't technically feasible, it is the service provider's job to clearly state what they actually offer in practice.
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    The network doesn't necessarily[1] care that it is "phone" data or "hotspot" data, no. But I, for one, certainly use more data doing stuff with a real computer (or a LAN full of real computers) than I do with my pocket computer by itself. It's not something I normally pay much attention to, but I did check just now. My LAN at home uses an average of around 1TB of WAN data per month, with just me using it. Meanwhile, my pocket computer uses around 10GB of cellular data (including instances of tethering) in an normal month. That's a rather gargantuan difference. And it'd be the same ~1TB at home whether it was over GPON, DOCSIS, or cellular tethering. One may be inclined to say that something like "There's no difference -- it's just data!", but doing so seems to willfully ignore the usage patterns being a couple of orders of magnitude apart. Meanwhile, advertising: The truthiness of advertising can always be improved, but that's a different discussion entirely. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41490252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41490252
    - Zak 2y ago
      Advertising "unlimited" leads to the need for limitations like that. A wireless provider probably can't provide 1TB of data for a monthly price that most customers are willing to pay. Service with a fixed data limit, however should treat all data the same.
mcfedr 2y ago
I'm so surprised this is still a thing, I remember it was like 10 years ago, but now you just turn on hotspot and keep going .. at least I thought.
numpad0 2y ago
Unlimited data is gym membership model, the businesses has to change its pricing if too many members actually used it. Phones before iPhone were much less efficient at wasting data, and therefore that distinction could "save" traffic for carriers by a lot.

jonpurdy 2y ago

Since you mentioned it, on MacOS when tethering: sudo sysctl -w net.inet.ip.ttl=65 When done, switch it back: sudo sysctl -w net.inet.ip.ttl=64 I went from 0.3Mbps on T-Mobile to 50+ Mbps with this; on providers that limit hotspot speed by examining TTL, this can be an effective way to get around it. (They assume if they see TTL as one lower than expected, data is passing through a hotspot/phone instead of directly from the phone.)

LorenDB 2y ago
Linux uses a similar command: sudo sysctl net.ipv4.ip_default_ttl=65 I assume there is an ipv6 version as well, but I haven't needed it.
- betaby 2y ago
  net.ipv6.conf.all.hop_limit=65 + net.ipv6.conf.lo.hop_limit=65
betaby 2y ago
There is no harm in keeping it at 65 permanently. Unless you think that TTL somehow helps to more uniquely identify you.
- jonpurdy 2y ago
  Good to know! I'm not a networking expert so figured leaving the default made sense just in case.
ghotli 2y ago
You're the real mvp on this thread. Thanks I figured this was in place but never thought through the ttl bit.

gigachadbro 2y ago

[dead]

margana 2y ago
You completely missed the point. There is no difference on the "shared medium" whether you use that data directly on your phone or on your PC through your phone. Also, service providers shouldn't be allowed to make false advertisements. It is not the job of the consumer to think "clearly infinite data isn't realistic, I should have no expectation to actually get infinite data even though they advertise that". If it isn't technically feasible, it is the service provider's job to clearly state what they actually offer in practice.
- ssl-3 2y ago
  The network doesn't necessarily[1] care that it is "phone" data or "hotspot" data, no. But I, for one, certainly use more data doing stuff with a real computer (or a LAN full of real computers) than I do with my pocket computer by itself. It's not something I normally pay much attention to, but I did check just now. My LAN at home uses an average of around 1TB of WAN data per month, with just me using it. Meanwhile, my pocket computer uses around 10GB of cellular data (including instances of tethering) in an normal month. That's a rather gargantuan difference. And it'd be the same ~1TB at home whether it was over GPON, DOCSIS, or cellular tethering. One may be inclined to say that something like "There's no difference -- it's just data!", but doing so seems to willfully ignore the usage patterns being a couple of orders of magnitude apart. Meanwhile, advertising: The truthiness of advertising can always be improved, but that's a different discussion entirely. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41490252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41490252
  - Zak 2y ago
    Advertising "unlimited" leads to the need for limitations like that. A wireless provider probably can't provide 1TB of data for a monthly price that most customers are willing to pay. Service with a fixed data limit, however should treat all data the same.

mcfedr 2y ago

I'm so surprised this is still a thing, I remember it was like 10 years ago, but now you just turn on hotspot and keep going .. at least I thought.

numpad0 2y ago

Unlimited data is gym membership model, the businesses has to change its pricing if too many members actually used it. Phones before iPhone were much less efficient at wasting data, and therefore that distinction could "save" traffic for carriers by a lot.