5 ms·

To avoid strike, Boeing promises 25% pay hike–and to build next jet in Seattle

38 points by pseudolus 2y ago

engineer_22 2y ago
Boeing might benefit from a partition.
- atoav 2y ago
  It might. But it might benefit even more from strong and powerful oversight.
nemetroid 2y ago
Posters on /r/boeing on Reddit seem unhappy. https://old.reddit.com/r/boeing/ https://old.reddit.com/r/boeing/
- k4rli 2y ago
  When are redditors ever happy?
  - mrguyorama 2y ago
    When they are accusing the wrong person of being a terrorist
advisedwang 2y ago
"25%" pay rise. You mean 11% in 2024, 4% in 2025, 4% in in 2026 and 6% in 2027[1]? After 21% inflation in the last four years? So in practice like a 1% annual rise? [1] https://www.boeing.com/content/dam/boeing/boeingdotcom/specialty/pdf/iam751/contract-highlights-fact-sheet.pdf?v=2 https://www.boeing.com/content/dam/boeing/boeingdotcom/speci... [2] https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1&year1=202007&year2=202407 https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1&year1=202007...
euroderf 2y ago
How does the totality of the promised pay rise compare to recent years' profits ? In other words, based on recent years' performance, can Boeing afford it ?
- howard941 2y ago
  They're posting losses every quarter. How can Boeing afford it? How can it not afford it? They're in a real jam.
  - euroderf 2y ago
    Modern state-sponsored capitalism does occasionally feature karma.
M95D 2y ago
EU citizen here. > 12 weeks of paid parental leave This is a joke, right? At Airbus (France) it's 16 (min) to 156 (max) weeks, paid 100%. [1] > reduced mandatory overtime Mandatory? OMG! I would learn french, quick! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Europe_and_Central_Asia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Europe_and_Cent...
- anon291 2y ago
  In the United States, 12 weeks is basically standard (although I'm pretty sure WA state already has paid family leave, so not sure what the purpose of Boeing providing it is exactly). Women typically get six months (considered short-term disability, separate insurance) + 12 weeks though, for obvious reasons. That being said 156 weeks is a bit ridiculous. No wonder the birth rates are so low.
  - lesuorac 2y ago
    > Under the state PFML, eligible employees are entitled to up to 12 weeks of family or medical leave, or a combination of the two up to 16 weeks annually. While on leave, you are entitled to partial wage replacement. This will be a percentage of your average weekly wage. It is up to 90% of your weekly wage, with a maximum benefit of $1,000/week [1] It seems that WA isn't at 100% of your salary. Afaik, this is common where the state provides a capped benefit and the company will pay the remainder. So if say the company did 24 weeks and the state only did 12 then the state+company pays you for 12 and then just the company pays for the next 12. [1]: https://kingcounty.gov/en/legacy/audience/employees/pay-benefits/wa-paid-family-medical-leave https://kingcounty.gov/en/legacy/audience/employees/pay-bene...
  - qwertycrackers 2y ago
    Wouldn't extremely generous parental leave be expected to increase the birth rate?
    - anon291 2y ago
      If it's 3 years long? No. If your oldest kid is too old people often don't want to go back to having a baby. In what I've seen, families with lots of kids tend to have them fairly close together (2 - 3 years max). The moment your youngest turns 5 and things become easier, people stop wanting to go back to the baby phase (can't blame them). Anyway, if we're talking about spacing 2 - 3 years apart, that means you're not working at all. At some point people will want to go back to work, and that may mean not having another kid. I think flexible policies are great, but the long leaves I don't think are super useful. Kids are not some abnormal condition; they need to be integrated into a full life. This is just my pet theory. I think places with overly long leaves (especially overly long paternity leaves) actually discourage men from wanting more children (And of course it takes two to tango here).
bigfatkitten 2y ago
Easy to promise something you'll never have to deliver. That next aircraft isn't coming during in the next four years.

38 points by pseudolus 2y ago

engineer_22 2y ago

Boeing might benefit from a partition.

atoav 2y ago
It might. But it might benefit even more from strong and powerful oversight.

nemetroid 2y ago

Posters on /r/boeing on Reddit seem unhappy. https://old.reddit.com/r/boeing/ https://old.reddit.com/r/boeing/

k4rli 2y ago
When are redditors ever happy?
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  When they are accusing the wrong person of being a terrorist

advisedwang 2y ago

"25%" pay rise. You mean 11% in 2024, 4% in 2025, 4% in in 2026 and 6% in 2027[1]? After 21% inflation in the last four years? So in practice like a 1% annual rise? [1] https://www.boeing.com/content/dam/boeing/boeingdotcom/specialty/pdf/iam751/contract-highlights-fact-sheet.pdf?v=2 https://www.boeing.com/content/dam/boeing/boeingdotcom/speci... [2] https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1&year1=202007&year2=202407 https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1&year1=202007...

euroderf 2y ago

How does the totality of the promised pay rise compare to recent years' profits ? In other words, based on recent years' performance, can Boeing afford it ?

howard941 2y ago
They're posting losses every quarter. How can Boeing afford it? How can it not afford it? They're in a real jam.
- euroderf 2y ago
  Modern state-sponsored capitalism does occasionally feature karma.

M95D 2y ago

EU citizen here. > 12 weeks of paid parental leave This is a joke, right? At Airbus (France) it's 16 (min) to 156 (max) weeks, paid 100%. [1] > reduced mandatory overtime Mandatory? OMG! I would learn french, quick! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Europe_and_Central_Asia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave#Europe_and_Cent...

anon291 2y ago
In the United States, 12 weeks is basically standard (although I'm pretty sure WA state already has paid family leave, so not sure what the purpose of Boeing providing it is exactly). Women typically get six months (considered short-term disability, separate insurance) + 12 weeks though, for obvious reasons. That being said 156 weeks is a bit ridiculous. No wonder the birth rates are so low.
- lesuorac 2y ago
  > Under the state PFML, eligible employees are entitled to up to 12 weeks of family or medical leave, or a combination of the two up to 16 weeks annually. While on leave, you are entitled to partial wage replacement. This will be a percentage of your average weekly wage. It is up to 90% of your weekly wage, with a maximum benefit of $1,000/week [1] It seems that WA isn't at 100% of your salary. Afaik, this is common where the state provides a capped benefit and the company will pay the remainder. So if say the company did 24 weeks and the state only did 12 then the state+company pays you for 12 and then just the company pays for the next 12. [1]: https://kingcounty.gov/en/legacy/audience/employees/pay-benefits/wa-paid-family-medical-leave https://kingcounty.gov/en/legacy/audience/employees/pay-bene...
- qwertycrackers 2y ago
  Wouldn't extremely generous parental leave be expected to increase the birth rate?
  - anon291 2y ago
    If it's 3 years long? No. If your oldest kid is too old people often don't want to go back to having a baby. In what I've seen, families with lots of kids tend to have them fairly close together (2 - 3 years max). The moment your youngest turns 5 and things become easier, people stop wanting to go back to the baby phase (can't blame them). Anyway, if we're talking about spacing 2 - 3 years apart, that means you're not working at all. At some point people will want to go back to work, and that may mean not having another kid. I think flexible policies are great, but the long leaves I don't think are super useful. Kids are not some abnormal condition; they need to be integrated into a full life. This is just my pet theory. I think places with overly long leaves (especially overly long paternity leaves) actually discourage men from wanting more children (And of course it takes two to tango here).

bigfatkitten 2y ago

Easy to promise something you'll never have to deliver. That next aircraft isn't coming during in the next four years.