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The thing is though that I want to move to Europe precisely for all these same reasons. And I want to do it with my USA dollars and wealth that enabled it, so

The thing is though that I want to move to Europe precisely for all these same reasons. And I want to do it with my USA dollars and wealth that enabled it, so I do recognize the dissonance there. Are Europeans happier due to all of the reasons you listed? Do you enable wealth to grow at the expense of the happiness of its residents if you implement the reforms needed to “move fast and break things”? Are Americans happier due to this wealth and entrepreneurship? I don’t think so, they seem pretty miserable right now. Overconsumption and having too much has made this generation have a lower life expectancy than the last, a stunning result. It would be unwise to pass these changes and enrich a few wealthy Europeans at the top and instill serfdom again and wealth inequality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

moi2388 2y ago
I suppose the truth/ideal situation would be somewhere in the middle. But the inability to capitalise on the tech sector, difficult regulations as barrier to entry, and a lot of changing rules regarding innovation, making things “green” and environmental and consumer safety does give a high burden to industry when competing with entities like China and the USA which do not have these restrictions. I think a long-term plan regarding regulations which are clear upfront and don’t constantly change, as well as massive tax benefits to new corporations could provide an economical boost. Having said that, I am not an economist, so I’d love someone with more knowledge to give their 2 cents. (Tax free, of course)
- izacus 2y ago
  My two cents are that EU needs to follow USA with aggressive protectionism to offset the regulation.
  - AlchemistCamp 2y ago
    Follow? The EU has been more more protectionist for decades in everything from agriculture to cars. If you look at the WTO’s published data, the mean tariffs in the EU are 5.0% while even now, the US is at just 3.2%. https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/tariff_profiles_list_e.htm https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/tariff_profiles_l...
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
  It's a shame that the EU is painted as a failure unless they have low taxes and industrious go-getters trashing their system. Their awesomeness doesn't show on a balance sheet so it might as well not exist.
  - throwaway48540 2y ago
    I live in EU. What awesomeness? There are places with better social and health services while having less taxes and regulations. The regulations are making actual day to day life hard for everyone, directly as well as indirectly. EU is surviving, but I definitely wouldn't - and don't know anyone who would - say it's thriving. Most of my friends who work in software and other hitech are planning their move to US.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
      Life expectancy? Happiness? https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2016/02/25/happiness-in-europe https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2016/02/25/happines...
      - throwaway48540 2y ago
        Try to talk to people instead of relying on some abstract numbers. "Yeah I'm so happy I have a job paying 500 USD per month, and I am so happy my 1.5-room flat rent is just 350" is a very common thing to hear where I live. The tax rate is 35% btw. Also, try to find newer statistics at least. 2016 was around the local maxima, everything went to shit - very noticeably - during and after covid.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        7bit 2y ago
        > Try to talk to people instead of relying on some abstract numbers. Because anecdotal evidence is better than empirically researched data? LOL
clarionbell 2y ago
Problem is that it's not sustainable. We can't defend ourselves, our economies are de-industrializing, we have right and left radical taking over political spectrum all the while our pension and healthcare systems are moving ever closer to a breaking point. The careful approach may have brought as pretty far. But isn't working anymore. It hasn't worked since 2008 at least.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  > We can't defend ourselves, our economies are de-industrializing, we have right and left radical taking over political spectrum all the while our pension and healthcare systems are moving ever closer to a breaking point. Other than the defense part, the same could be said for the US.
  - Workaccount2 2y ago
    The US has very rosy economic future projections compared to Europe, and frankly the rest of the world. Don't be fooled by sensational headlines and chronically online college kids complaining.
    - RGamma 2y ago
      The US as a statistic, perhaps. As a collection of people... not sure, they seem pretty angry already.
    - gota 2y ago
      Rosy in comparison to the rest of the world - maybe Rosy in comparison to 1976~2000 - no I'm under the impression it's been (sort of) proven (but I have no source) that the major reason for 'college kids complaining' is precisely because of the perceived loss in quality of life, purchasing power and access to {healtchare, safety, community, third spaces} when compared to prior generations
      - aesch 2y ago
        I'm glad you mentioned 'perceived' loss in quality of life. I think that is what is being argued, does the perception meet the reality? It could be that the major reason for 'college kids perception of loss in quality of life' is that the rise of ad-driven media, as opposed to the previous generation's subscription model, leads to more sensationalized news to drive clicks. Combine that with online forums (echo chambers) that make it easier to complain to a sympathetic audience. College kids are also more susceptible to recency bias, they didn't live through previous times of uncertainty and have no memories of cold wars or the turbulence that previous generations lived through.
renewiltord 2y ago
No. That's normal. Getting rich and moving to a place where labour is cheap is a pretty good strategy.
deleted 2y ago
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1N73RC3P70R 2y ago
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moi2388 2y ago

I suppose the truth/ideal situation would be somewhere in the middle. But the inability to capitalise on the tech sector, difficult regulations as barrier to entry, and a lot of changing rules regarding innovation, making things “green” and environmental and consumer safety does give a high burden to industry when competing with entities like China and the USA which do not have these restrictions. I think a long-term plan regarding regulations which are clear upfront and don’t constantly change, as well as massive tax benefits to new corporations could provide an economical boost. Having said that, I am not an economist, so I’d love someone with more knowledge to give their 2 cents. (Tax free, of course)

izacus 2y ago
My two cents are that EU needs to follow USA with aggressive protectionism to offset the regulation.
- AlchemistCamp 2y ago
  Follow? The EU has been more more protectionist for decades in everything from agriculture to cars. If you look at the WTO’s published data, the mean tariffs in the EU are 5.0% while even now, the US is at just 3.2%. https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/tariff_profiles_list_e.htm https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/statis_e/tariff_profiles_l...
2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
It's a shame that the EU is painted as a failure unless they have low taxes and industrious go-getters trashing their system. Their awesomeness doesn't show on a balance sheet so it might as well not exist.
- throwaway48540 2y ago
  I live in EU. What awesomeness? There are places with better social and health services while having less taxes and regulations. The regulations are making actual day to day life hard for everyone, directly as well as indirectly. EU is surviving, but I definitely wouldn't - and don't know anyone who would - say it's thriving. Most of my friends who work in software and other hitech are planning their move to US.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
    Life expectancy? Happiness? https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2016/02/25/happiness-in-europe https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2016/02/25/happines...
    - throwaway48540 2y ago
      Try to talk to people instead of relying on some abstract numbers. "Yeah I'm so happy I have a job paying 500 USD per month, and I am so happy my 1.5-room flat rent is just 350" is a very common thing to hear where I live. The tax rate is 35% btw. Also, try to find newer statistics at least. 2016 was around the local maxima, everything went to shit - very noticeably - during and after covid.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - 7bit 2y ago
        > Try to talk to people instead of relying on some abstract numbers. Because anecdotal evidence is better than empirically researched data? LOL

clarionbell 2y ago

Problem is that it's not sustainable. We can't defend ourselves, our economies are de-industrializing, we have right and left radical taking over political spectrum all the while our pension and healthcare systems are moving ever closer to a breaking point. The careful approach may have brought as pretty far. But isn't working anymore. It hasn't worked since 2008 at least.

silverquiet 2y ago
> We can't defend ourselves, our economies are de-industrializing, we have right and left radical taking over political spectrum all the while our pension and healthcare systems are moving ever closer to a breaking point. Other than the defense part, the same could be said for the US.
- Workaccount2 2y ago
  The US has very rosy economic future projections compared to Europe, and frankly the rest of the world. Don't be fooled by sensational headlines and chronically online college kids complaining.
  - RGamma 2y ago
    The US as a statistic, perhaps. As a collection of people... not sure, they seem pretty angry already.
  - gota 2y ago
    Rosy in comparison to the rest of the world - maybe Rosy in comparison to 1976~2000 - no I'm under the impression it's been (sort of) proven (but I have no source) that the major reason for 'college kids complaining' is precisely because of the perceived loss in quality of life, purchasing power and access to {healtchare, safety, community, third spaces} when compared to prior generations
    - aesch 2y ago
      I'm glad you mentioned 'perceived' loss in quality of life. I think that is what is being argued, does the perception meet the reality? It could be that the major reason for 'college kids perception of loss in quality of life' is that the rise of ad-driven media, as opposed to the previous generation's subscription model, leads to more sensationalized news to drive clicks. Combine that with online forums (echo chambers) that make it easier to complain to a sympathetic audience. College kids are also more susceptible to recency bias, they didn't live through previous times of uncertainty and have no memories of cold wars or the turbulence that previous generations lived through.

renewiltord 2y ago

No. That's normal. Getting rich and moving to a place where labour is cheap is a pretty good strategy.

deleted 2y ago

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1N73RC3P70R 2y ago

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