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OpenGL is a questionable choice given that it is deprecated technology. I don't get why somebody would start a new project based on OpenGL these days.

by copx 2y ago

moffkalast 2y ago
Probably because doing it in Vulkan requires you to slice your brain open.
a1o 2y ago
There's a good amount of different compatibility layers that you can use. There are a few vulkan implementations, there is Angle, and Webgl is still working... Depending on what you are doing you can still do a lot with OpenGL, you don't have to rely on the implementation in Nvidia drivers or whatever. I think most people using it are just really comfortable with it's shader language.
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
"given that it is deprecated technology" Depreciated by 'who'? It's a standard, not a feature from some company that is ending support. There is a governing body. "The Khronos Group, Inc. is an open, non-profit, member-driven consortium of 170 organizations developing, publishing and maintaining royalty-free interoperability standards for 3D graphics, virtual reality, augmented reality, parallel computation, vision acceleration and machine learning.[1][2] "
- copx 2y ago
  >Depreciated by 'who'? By the very Khronos Group you mentioned. They are developing Vulkan now, which they consider the successor to OpenGL. There will be no new OpenGL versions, again it is deprecated technology. Deprecated by its creators just like Python 2. And just like Python 2, you can still use it, but again it would be a questionable choice for a new project in both cases, and for the same reason.
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    But, Python is not gone. There is a new version, I can still use the next version of Python. Like you said, OpenGL does have an upgrade path to Vulkan. It isn't like because Python 2 was depreciated, you have to switch to C#. It isn't gone. You can use the new version. Or older version until ready to migrate. Maybe it seems like it because of a name change, and you don't want to call Vulkan, OpenGL So why give up on OpenGL altogether, when there is continuing development.
    - kbolino 2y ago
      Vulkan is a totally different API from OpenGL. It's not hardly a mere name change and the initial work that became Vulkan originated outside of Kronos anyway. There is no "upgrade path" from OpenGL to Vulkan short of a total rewrite. This wasn't done maliciously or carelessly; the two APIs target fundamentally different abstract models of how graphics hardware works.
      - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
        "totally different API" Going from Python 2 to 3 wasn't a cake walk. Hence so many years to migrate. But I get what you are saying. Some upgrade paths are easier/harder than others.
        seba_dos1 2y ago
        > Going from Python 2 to 3 wasn't a cake walk. Yes, even despite of many similarities and shared stuff, which can't really be said about OpenGL and Vulkan.
  - ookdatnog 2y ago
    I don't think "deprecated" is the right terminology here. Nowhere on the Khronos Group website can I find a statement that OpenGL is considered deprecated. Not on the landing page for OpenGL (https://www.khronos.org/api/opengl https://www.khronos.org/api/opengl) and not in the OpenGL FAQ (https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/FAQ https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/FAQ). I think the term "deprecate" implies some level of actively discouraging use that is simply not happening with OpenGL (and that was/is for sure happening with Python 2). Specific platform vendors may deprecate OpenGL on their platform (as notably Apple has done), but that does not mean OpenGL is deprecated by Khronos Group.
- kbolino 2y ago
  Deprecated by the evolution of the industry. Graphics hardware of the present day does not work anything like graphics hardware of the 1990s. OpenGL requires so much compatibility baggage and is so built around the wrong model of graphics programming that, even if you try to write it to work on modern hardware well, it has too many bottlenecks and wastes too much time and power to be competitive. It is unsalvageable even as a starting point for something better. Vulkan is Kronos's own replacement (based on AMD's earlier work with Mantle), DirectX 12 is Microsoft's, and Metal is Apple's. OpenGL will continue to be supported for the foreseeable future but it will not gain any major new features, and it will likely lose direct support (requiring emulation or shims to actually work) on many platforms that still do support it now within a decade. For many games, this actually isn't a big issue, as they're not pushing the envelope anyway. But for those that do (or potentially will), OpenGL is the wrong choice.
- flohofwoe 2y ago
  Khronos doesn't work on GL anymore. The last OpenGL spec update (for GL 4.6) was in 2017.
flykespice 2y ago
Then tell me what is a better alternative then: human-friendly API (which Vulkan isn't) but still low level enough to do some serious graphics programming?
Narishma 2y ago
Because it's much simpler that the alternatives and will remain supported forever in practice (either directly or through things like ANGLE or MoltenGL) even if it's deprecated. If you don't need the features of the newer APIs it makes perfect sense to keep using it.

OpenGL is a questionable choice given that it is deprecated technology. I don't get why somebody would start a new project based on OpenGL these days.

by copx 2y ago

OpenGL is a questionable choice given that it is deprecated technology. I don't get why somebody would start a new project based on OpenGL these days.

moffkalast 2y ago

Probably because doing it in Vulkan requires you to slice your brain open.

a1o 2y ago

There's a good amount of different compatibility layers that you can use. There are a few vulkan implementations, there is Angle, and Webgl is still working... Depending on what you are doing you can still do a lot with OpenGL, you don't have to rely on the implementation in Nvidia drivers or whatever. I think most people using it are just really comfortable with it's shader language.

FrustratedMonky 2y ago

"given that it is deprecated technology" Depreciated by 'who'? It's a standard, not a feature from some company that is ending support. There is a governing body. "The Khronos Group, Inc. is an open, non-profit, member-driven consortium of 170 organizations developing, publishing and maintaining royalty-free interoperability standards for 3D graphics, virtual reality, augmented reality, parallel computation, vision acceleration and machine learning.[1][2] "

copx 2y ago
>Depreciated by 'who'? By the very Khronos Group you mentioned. They are developing Vulkan now, which they consider the successor to OpenGL. There will be no new OpenGL versions, again it is deprecated technology. Deprecated by its creators just like Python 2. And just like Python 2, you can still use it, but again it would be a questionable choice for a new project in both cases, and for the same reason.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  But, Python is not gone. There is a new version, I can still use the next version of Python. Like you said, OpenGL does have an upgrade path to Vulkan. It isn't like because Python 2 was depreciated, you have to switch to C#. It isn't gone. You can use the new version. Or older version until ready to migrate. Maybe it seems like it because of a name change, and you don't want to call Vulkan, OpenGL So why give up on OpenGL altogether, when there is continuing development.
  - kbolino 2y ago
    Vulkan is a totally different API from OpenGL. It's not hardly a mere name change and the initial work that became Vulkan originated outside of Kronos anyway. There is no "upgrade path" from OpenGL to Vulkan short of a total rewrite. This wasn't done maliciously or carelessly; the two APIs target fundamentally different abstract models of how graphics hardware works.
    - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
      "totally different API" Going from Python 2 to 3 wasn't a cake walk. Hence so many years to migrate. But I get what you are saying. Some upgrade paths are easier/harder than others.
      - seba_dos1 2y ago
        > Going from Python 2 to 3 wasn't a cake walk. Yes, even despite of many similarities and shared stuff, which can't really be said about OpenGL and Vulkan.
- ookdatnog 2y ago
  I don't think "deprecated" is the right terminology here. Nowhere on the Khronos Group website can I find a statement that OpenGL is considered deprecated. Not on the landing page for OpenGL (https://www.khronos.org/api/opengl https://www.khronos.org/api/opengl) and not in the OpenGL FAQ (https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/FAQ https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/FAQ). I think the term "deprecate" implies some level of actively discouraging use that is simply not happening with OpenGL (and that was/is for sure happening with Python 2). Specific platform vendors may deprecate OpenGL on their platform (as notably Apple has done), but that does not mean OpenGL is deprecated by Khronos Group.
kbolino 2y ago
Deprecated by the evolution of the industry. Graphics hardware of the present day does not work anything like graphics hardware of the 1990s. OpenGL requires so much compatibility baggage and is so built around the wrong model of graphics programming that, even if you try to write it to work on modern hardware well, it has too many bottlenecks and wastes too much time and power to be competitive. It is unsalvageable even as a starting point for something better. Vulkan is Kronos's own replacement (based on AMD's earlier work with Mantle), DirectX 12 is Microsoft's, and Metal is Apple's. OpenGL will continue to be supported for the foreseeable future but it will not gain any major new features, and it will likely lose direct support (requiring emulation or shims to actually work) on many platforms that still do support it now within a decade. For many games, this actually isn't a big issue, as they're not pushing the envelope anyway. But for those that do (or potentially will), OpenGL is the wrong choice.
flohofwoe 2y ago
Khronos doesn't work on GL anymore. The last OpenGL spec update (for GL 4.6) was in 2017.

flykespice 2y ago

Then tell me what is a better alternative then: human-friendly API (which Vulkan isn't) but still low level enough to do some serious graphics programming?

Narishma 2y ago

Because it's much simpler that the alternatives and will remain supported forever in practice (either directly or through things like ANGLE or MoltenGL) even if it's deprecated. If you don't need the features of the newer APIs it makes perfect sense to keep using it.