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Companies that need to keep their software developers around long-term often introduce a (notionally) parallel career track with titles like "Senior Principle S

Companies that need to keep their software developers around long-term often introduce a (notionally) parallel career track with titles like "Senior Principle SDE L8"

The_Colonel 2y ago
I don't think it's just "notional". These people are usually put in technical charge of progressively bigger / more complex projects. They have a lot of clout, decision power, but not organizational/disciplinary powers, no direct reports. Alternatively, I've seen a "senior principal" dev working effectively as IC in a technically very demanding project (specialized database engine).
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  I'm a 'principal SRE' which is a weird thing. More made up than the rest of the titles out there, at least. It exists in the void created by others, eliminating toil and such. Basically champion firefighter in addition to what you describe. Arguably the role we'd have if there were many CTOs and they were still practicing, instead of getting showtime
pjmlp 2y ago
Having worked in such companies, you basically end up as architect, or senior team lead, where management like tasks still take place. You end up doing less coding, more mentoring, drawing diagrams or doing requirements analysis with the team output customers.
- afc 2y ago
  Yeah, that's exactly my experience. After switching from managing to a senior (L7) IC position at Google, most of what this article mentions continued to apply to my work.
re-thc 2y ago
> Companies that need to keep their software developers around long-term I never get why companies are so fixated on salaries being tied to titles. People just do different jobs and you shouldn't need technical or people leadership to get paid more. If someone is really effective at their job they don't need to be called (or do the work of) a principal engineer. Just pay the 10x engineer 10x.
- valval 2y ago
  What’s a 10x engineer and how do you measure that?
  - re-thc 2y ago
    > and how do you measure that? That's on a company's performance reviews... and so how do you measure salary increases, bonuses, anything? There shouldn't be a different standard to it. The only difference is the engineer shouldn't be forced into a different field to get paid more. > What’s a 10x engineer It's just an expression I'd say. Can be 2x, 5x, whatever. Most of the time a good engineer is forced into management of some sort (technical or people) before the 2x mark (salary wise).
- gregors 2y ago
  Generally speaking, there are hard, concrete pay bands associated with roles. As you progress through the pay bands there's less room for raises. There isn't an idea of "an exception" to this rule. There aren't special employees in the rank and file. More frustratingly, for example quasi-governmental places, the total comp raise any individual can receive is a hard limit written in their rules. Even if you skipped 5 levels you couldn't even get that raise. That's why new employees are hired at a higher rate than existing employees. The only solution is to quit for a time and then come back to the org. Though maybe once every 5 years they'll do a realignment of pay bands.

Companies that need to keep their software developers around long-term often introduce a (notionally) parallel career track with titles like "Senior Principle SDE L8"

The_Colonel 2y ago

I don't think it's just "notional". These people are usually put in technical charge of progressively bigger / more complex projects. They have a lot of clout, decision power, but not organizational/disciplinary powers, no direct reports. Alternatively, I've seen a "senior principal" dev working effectively as IC in a technically very demanding project (specialized database engine).

bravetraveler 2y ago
I'm a 'principal SRE' which is a weird thing. More made up than the rest of the titles out there, at least. It exists in the void created by others, eliminating toil and such. Basically champion firefighter in addition to what you describe. Arguably the role we'd have if there were many CTOs and they were still practicing, instead of getting showtime

pjmlp 2y ago

Having worked in such companies, you basically end up as architect, or senior team lead, where management like tasks still take place. You end up doing less coding, more mentoring, drawing diagrams or doing requirements analysis with the team output customers.

afc 2y ago
Yeah, that's exactly my experience. After switching from managing to a senior (L7) IC position at Google, most of what this article mentions continued to apply to my work.

re-thc 2y ago

> Companies that need to keep their software developers around long-term I never get why companies are so fixated on salaries being tied to titles. People just do different jobs and you shouldn't need technical or people leadership to get paid more. If someone is really effective at their job they don't need to be called (or do the work of) a principal engineer. Just pay the 10x engineer 10x.

valval 2y ago
What’s a 10x engineer and how do you measure that?
- re-thc 2y ago
  > and how do you measure that? That's on a company's performance reviews... and so how do you measure salary increases, bonuses, anything? There shouldn't be a different standard to it. The only difference is the engineer shouldn't be forced into a different field to get paid more. > What’s a 10x engineer It's just an expression I'd say. Can be 2x, 5x, whatever. Most of the time a good engineer is forced into management of some sort (technical or people) before the 2x mark (salary wise).
gregors 2y ago
Generally speaking, there are hard, concrete pay bands associated with roles. As you progress through the pay bands there's less room for raises. There isn't an idea of "an exception" to this rule. There aren't special employees in the rank and file. More frustratingly, for example quasi-governmental places, the total comp raise any individual can receive is a hard limit written in their rules. Even if you skipped 5 levels you couldn't even get that raise. That's why new employees are hired at a higher rate than existing employees. The only solution is to quit for a time and then come back to the org. Though maybe once every 5 years they'll do a realignment of pay bands.