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I think[0] there are two distinct axes here, so ideally how we'd like our avalanche dogs to feel about their job would be: "Sometimes you find live people, whi

I think[0] there are two distinct axes here, so ideally how we'd like our avalanche dogs to feel about their job would be: "Sometimes you find live people, which is sweet, and sometimes you find dead people[1], which is a bummer, but I am a good boi no matter which because I search thoroughly and report immediately." [0] take the above with a grain of salt; almost all my canine experience is second-hand, with scent and herding breeds, so that "ideal" is a cross between a short conversation with a neighbour who trained avalanche dogs and a friend who is a ski instructor, and believes: "Sometimes it's sunny and the clients are talented and resilient, which is sweet, and sometimes it's snowing hard and the clients have no talent and no nerves, which is a bummer, but I am a good ski instructor no matter which because I bring them to at least 80% of the improvements which could have been possible given the conditions and clients of that particular session." [1] unsolicited moralising: there are weather reports. use them. there are beacon/pole/shovel avalanche sets. buy them. there are guides. hire them. So many of the deaths reported in the local papers are because people are not good bois: they go off piste, without a guide, without self-rescue equipment, on days when there were already avalanche warnings given in the morning.

gradschoolfail 2y ago
0][1 This is analogous to your selfjoke version of Rao’s threeway comedy? My curiosity was more towards the >2-agent transactional game, i.e can the dog guess at what the human wants?
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  Working dogs definitely guess at what their handler wants. "Running riot" is the term of art for when they do their own thing instead. (advice on choosing a hunting prospect which I've run across: put something startling [alarm clock, etc.] next to the litter, and see how they react. Your best prospects should be among those puppies which first investigate, then ignore, the novelty. Those who never investigate probably won't be curious enough to easily train; those who never ignore probably won't be able to focus enough to easily train) EDIT: maybe that wasn't what you were asking. Dogs obviously engage or disengage with other people based on whether or not they believe their person approves. But I don't think dogs ever (like someone asking a leading question of a third party not because they wanted to hear the answer but because they want their so to hear it yet are unwilling to say it directly) instigate a dyadic transaction explicitly for the effect it has on third parties. Horses for sure don't. (there is "dogpiling", but I think for dogs and am pretty sure for horses that that's a side effect of dyadic jockeying, not the social game monkeys make of it) What say the dog people?
  - gradschoolfail 2y ago
    AIBO (the entity that tirelessly turns my typing into mindfeed) knows roughly what i was looking for :) 2024-09-06 Dogs with prior experience of a task still overimitate their caregiver https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-70700-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-70700-3 (With suggested related content) However, a direct comparison of overimitation timing with humans is necessary to understand if this approach is indeed partly what differentiates dog overimitation from that of humans. Yes, will consider the 3-way communication styles at some point (and the Rao talk chart) but right now exploring what a purely dyadic interaction can bring us, e.g. how to model the occasions on which Sir Humphrey/Hacker considered rewriting their firmwares post-startle (with or without npc intervention from Annie or Woolley)
    - 082349872349872 2y ago
      Re: overimitation, I've seen more than one reference (from people who lived through it) that there was a period where it was nearly de rigueur for theoretical computer scientists to wear sandals and socks. There were 5 seasons of Yes, [Prime] Minister so even if things were pretty episodic intraseasonally IIRC Sir H "wins" all their initial dual duels but by the final seasons, in addition to having climbed the greasy pole, PM H even comes out ahead in direct conflicts with Sir H from time to time. Oh, I believe my wife is saying there's a message for me: about a Criollo horse, from a Señor Modelo. Sorry, so sorry.

gradschoolfail 2y ago

0][1 This is analogous to your selfjoke version of Rao’s threeway comedy? My curiosity was more towards the >2-agent transactional game, i.e can the dog guess at what the human wants?

082349872349872 2y ago
Working dogs definitely guess at what their handler wants. "Running riot" is the term of art for when they do their own thing instead. (advice on choosing a hunting prospect which I've run across: put something startling [alarm clock, etc.] next to the litter, and see how they react. Your best prospects should be among those puppies which first investigate, then ignore, the novelty. Those who never investigate probably won't be curious enough to easily train; those who never ignore probably won't be able to focus enough to easily train) EDIT: maybe that wasn't what you were asking. Dogs obviously engage or disengage with other people based on whether or not they believe their person approves. But I don't think dogs ever (like someone asking a leading question of a third party not because they wanted to hear the answer but because they want their so to hear it yet are unwilling to say it directly) instigate a dyadic transaction explicitly for the effect it has on third parties. Horses for sure don't. (there is "dogpiling", but I think for dogs and am pretty sure for horses that that's a side effect of dyadic jockeying, not the social game monkeys make of it) What say the dog people?
- gradschoolfail 2y ago
  AIBO (the entity that tirelessly turns my typing into mindfeed) knows roughly what i was looking for :) 2024-09-06 Dogs with prior experience of a task still overimitate their caregiver https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-70700-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-70700-3 (With suggested related content) However, a direct comparison of overimitation timing with humans is necessary to understand if this approach is indeed partly what differentiates dog overimitation from that of humans. Yes, will consider the 3-way communication styles at some point (and the Rao talk chart) but right now exploring what a purely dyadic interaction can bring us, e.g. how to model the occasions on which Sir Humphrey/Hacker considered rewriting their firmwares post-startle (with or without npc intervention from Annie or Woolley)
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    Re: overimitation, I've seen more than one reference (from people who lived through it) that there was a period where it was nearly de rigueur for theoretical computer scientists to wear sandals and socks. There were 5 seasons of Yes, [Prime] Minister so even if things were pretty episodic intraseasonally IIRC Sir H "wins" all their initial dual duels but by the final seasons, in addition to having climbed the greasy pole, PM H even comes out ahead in direct conflicts with Sir H from time to time. Oh, I believe my wife is saying there's a message for me: about a Criollo horse, from a Señor Modelo. Sorry, so sorry.