4 ms·

Don’t worry, savers will be made to bail them out one way or another.

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Savers are people who were lucky in a very specific policy configuration. No point in denigrating people realizing they operate in a rigged system. Irresponsible people are a very small slice of the pie, compared to people who were hit with joblessness, healthcare expenses beyond their means, and those who could never make enough to save enough. We could've afforded pensions and universal healthcare. That productivity was direct to corporate profits and management compensation instead. This was a choice, this is the outcome. https://www.epi.org/publication/retirement-in-america/ https://www.epi.org/publication/retirement-in-america/ https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/magazine/401k-retirement-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/magazine/401k-retirement-... https://www.nbcnews.com/business/retirement/great-401-k-experiment-has-failed-many-americans-n327321 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/retirement/great-401-k-expe... https://press.aarp.org/2024-4-24-New-AARP-Survey-1-in-5-Americans-Ages-50-Have-No-Retirement-Savings https://press.aarp.org/2024-4-24-New-AARP-Survey-1-in-5-Amer... https://thehill.com/business/personal-finance/3991136-nearly-half-of-baby-boomers-have-no-retirement-savings/ https://thehill.com/business/personal-finance/3991136-nearly... https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-93430900525-7/fulltext https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-93430900525-7/fulltext
- ThrowawayR2 2y ago
  That would be a salient point if this article wasn't specifically about the people being irresponsible.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    People should be mindful that rage bait should not set policy. A reminder to make data informed decisions, and to not take such a piece as anything other than an unhealthy reward center hit. Some humans are irresponsible, and will always incur some drag on systems at scale.
    - linotype 2y ago
      Median US retirement savings for those entering retirement (65+) is around $200k. This generation had the largest wealth expansion in human history. That’s about $500 saved per year for 40 years at 9% inflation adjusted return (easy to get with an S&P 500 index fund). Less than $50/month. They could have chosen to save more; they chose not to. https://www.officialdata.org/us/stocks/s-p-500/1984?amount=100&endYear=2024 https://www.officialdata.org/us/stocks/s-p-500/1984?amount=1...
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        Interpret the data however you want. Policy through votes will come for the wealth eventually, and the folks at the top hold most of it. Progress is a function of cohort turnover in this regard. Old people with old ideas age out, young people age into voting. > About 93% of U.S. households' stock market wealth is held by the top 10%. ; While it's true that a record high 58% of American households do own stocks via mutual funds or as individual shares, in the aggregate the amount of stock most of these folks own is tiny. https://www.axios.com/2024/01/10/wealthy-own-record-share-stock-market https://www.axios.com/2024/01/10/wealthy-own-record-share-st...
        linotype 2y ago
        Yes, because many people choose not to save. While not everyone could save $100/month (double the amount I mentioned), almost everyone over the age of say 25 can. This was attainable for the majority even 40 years ago. Again, Americans can save more, the savings rate skyrocketed for instance during the pandemic even as unemployment increased dramatically, they choose not to: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFv4v64zyWAyLP3f6YEN6pvjffSUsxsGkI7Q&usqp=CAU https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFv4v6...
        toomuchtodo 2y ago
        > Yes, because many people choose not to save. You keep saying this, but this is not what the data shows. https://www.google.com/search?q=retirement+crisis https://www.google.com/search?q=retirement+crisis https://www.ncoa.org/article/addressing-the-nations-retirement-crisis-the-80-percent-financially-struggling/ https://www.ncoa.org/article/addressing-the-nations-retireme... https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/02/economy/americans-struggle-to-save-as-retirement-crisis-looms/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/02/economy/americans-struggle-to... https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/about/news-room/opinion/2024/01/18/america-has-a-retirement-crisis-we-need-to-make-it-easier-to-save https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/about/news-room/opinion/2024/01... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-05-24/retirement-crisis-38-trillion-in-us-pensions-401-k-s-annuities-isn-t-enough https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-05-24/retiremen... | https://archive.today/OZOWz https://archive.today/OZOWz https://www.lynalden.com/september-2024-newsletter/ https://www.lynalden.com/september-2024-newsletter/

Savers are people who were lucky in a very specific policy configuration. No point in denigrating people realizing they operate in a rigged system. Irresponsible people are a very small slice of the pie, compared to people who were hit with joblessness, healthcare expenses beyond their means, and those who could never make enough to save enough. We could've afforded pensions and universal healthcare. That productivity was direct to corporate profits and management compensation instead. This was a choice, this is the outcome. https://www.epi.org/publication/retirement-in-america/ https://www.epi.org/publication/retirement-in-america/ https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/magazine/401k-retirement-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/magazine/401k-retirement-... https://www.nbcnews.com/business/retirement/great-401-k-experiment-has-failed-many-americans-n327321 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/retirement/great-401-k-expe... https://press.aarp.org/2024-4-24-New-AARP-Survey-1-in-5-Americans-Ages-50-Have-No-Retirement-Savings https://press.aarp.org/2024-4-24-New-AARP-Survey-1-in-5-Amer... https://thehill.com/business/personal-finance/3991136-nearly-half-of-baby-boomers-have-no-retirement-savings/ https://thehill.com/business/personal-finance/3991136-nearly... https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-93430900525-7/fulltext https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-93430900525-7/fulltext

ThrowawayR2 2y ago
That would be a salient point if this article wasn't specifically about the people being irresponsible.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  People should be mindful that rage bait should not set policy. A reminder to make data informed decisions, and to not take such a piece as anything other than an unhealthy reward center hit. Some humans are irresponsible, and will always incur some drag on systems at scale.
  - linotype 2y ago
    Median US retirement savings for those entering retirement (65+) is around $200k. This generation had the largest wealth expansion in human history. That’s about $500 saved per year for 40 years at 9% inflation adjusted return (easy to get with an S&P 500 index fund). Less than $50/month. They could have chosen to save more; they chose not to. https://www.officialdata.org/us/stocks/s-p-500/1984?amount=100&endYear=2024 https://www.officialdata.org/us/stocks/s-p-500/1984?amount=1...
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      Interpret the data however you want. Policy through votes will come for the wealth eventually, and the folks at the top hold most of it. Progress is a function of cohort turnover in this regard. Old people with old ideas age out, young people age into voting. > About 93% of U.S. households' stock market wealth is held by the top 10%. ; While it's true that a record high 58% of American households do own stocks via mutual funds or as individual shares, in the aggregate the amount of stock most of these folks own is tiny. https://www.axios.com/2024/01/10/wealthy-own-record-share-stock-market https://www.axios.com/2024/01/10/wealthy-own-record-share-st...
      - linotype 2y ago
        Yes, because many people choose not to save. While not everyone could save $100/month (double the amount I mentioned), almost everyone over the age of say 25 can. This was attainable for the majority even 40 years ago. Again, Americans can save more, the savings rate skyrocketed for instance during the pandemic even as unemployment increased dramatically, they choose not to: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFv4v64zyWAyLP3f6YEN6pvjffSUsxsGkI7Q&usqp=CAU https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQFv4v6...
        toomuchtodo 2y ago
        > Yes, because many people choose not to save. You keep saying this, but this is not what the data shows. https://www.google.com/search?q=retirement+crisis https://www.google.com/search?q=retirement+crisis https://www.ncoa.org/article/addressing-the-nations-retirement-crisis-the-80-percent-financially-struggling/ https://www.ncoa.org/article/addressing-the-nations-retireme... https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/02/economy/americans-struggle-to-save-as-retirement-crisis-looms/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/02/economy/americans-struggle-to... https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/about/news-room/opinion/2024/01/18/america-has-a-retirement-crisis-we-need-to-make-it-easier-to-save https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/about/news-room/opinion/2024/01... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-05-24/retirement-crisis-38-trillion-in-us-pensions-401-k-s-annuities-isn-t-enough https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-05-24/retiremen... | https://archive.today/OZOWz https://archive.today/OZOWz https://www.lynalden.com/september-2024-newsletter/ https://www.lynalden.com/september-2024-newsletter/