4 ms·

Just like 'Land Value Tax' needs a mechanism of market evaluation of property (and current use / contents) value as a fix, I think a similar solution can apply

Just like 'Land Value Tax' needs a mechanism of market evaluation of property (and current use / contents) value as a fix, I think a similar solution can apply to taxes. Require a reporting of all liquid cash, property of substantive (resellable) value, and 'investments' of any sort. Liabilities could also be considered for a literal Net Worth tax. In that evaluation the 'self loan' loophole should equal out to cash on hand / value and also an unpaid liability.

alchemist1e9 2y ago
“I have never understood why it is ‘greed’ to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else’s money.”
- HideousKojima 2y ago
  Because as Jesus said, "If there be any poor among you, do not give of your substance to them. Rather, have the Romans take it from that rich jerk down the road at spear-point and have them give a pittance to the poor and waste the rest on bureaucracy and wars."
  - spencerflem 2y ago
    Jesus was famous for upturning the tables of the money lenders, and their church has a tithe
    - HideousKojima 2y ago
      Both of which are fine by me, and neither of which are state enforced resdistribution schemes to (allegedly) help the poor, so what's your point?
      - spencerflem 2y ago
        My point is, Jesus is not a good source to say that having Billionaires and Hundred Billionaires are OK, Here's an actual quote, not a made up sarcastic one "Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” and that the church itself runs one of the biggest "redistribution schemes"
        HideousKojima 2y ago
        And I completely agree with what Jesus said. But that's something between the wealthy and God, not the wealthy and the state. And once again, various Christian churches' tithe and charity systems are voluntary, not enforced by state violence.
        spencerflem 2y ago
        Are you an anarchist? Because there's some argument there, I'm not writing it off. But in your world, does the govt use violence to stop people from doing what they want? For enforcing things like labor contracts? (a made up legal fiction that can only exist in the context of a state) If no: I commend you for imagining a world free from state violence. I don't have the vision for it myself but I can respect that. if yes: 1. Who funds the police, & 2. Why is violence legal only when done by the rich?
      - piva00 2y ago
        The state is not collecting taxes to "allegedly" help the poor, it's to help society as a whole. Who benefits from having a well educated society? Everyone. Who benefits from having a healthy society? Everyone. Who benefits from having well maintained infrastructure? Everyone. Who benefits from social safety nets, providing a soft landing in case of illness, failure at a business endeavour, etc.? Everyone. Your view that the state is only using taxes to help the poor is absurd, a well running government benefits a whole society.
  - Brian_K_White 2y ago
    Was Jesus presented as any part of the reasoning behind this?
- spencerflem 2y ago
  Its not possible to become fantastically rich without the support of a state, or by essentially being a state. For Amazon to work, they need the roads that the govt built, the internet the govt invented, the cable the govt subsidised, the military and the police to protect their shipments and keep the workers in line, the courts to handle disputes and a million other things. Corporations themselves are a legal fiction made up by the state. Its incredibly fair to tax for this and Could Not Possibly work any other way. And on top of that, come on: look at https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/?v=3 https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/?v=3 and tell me that having hundreds of billions of dollars isn't greedy. 10 million (ie. thirty thousand times less) and you can retire in luxury.
  - glimshe 2y ago
    Relative luxury. It gets you a great house, frequent travel, nice cars every year. But no jets or truly luxurious real estate (which would cost more than that alone). Still, I hear you.
  - alchemist1e9 2y ago
    Thank you for at least being able to understand the most crucial and important function of the state is to create well regulated markets with law and order, along with property and individual rights they are necessary preconditions to capitalism. commentators have confused either oligarchy or anarchy for liberalism and capitalism. This is a profound cultural and educational failure that capitalism has been slandered in this way. Unfortunately the rest you likely have completely misunderstood. fwiw you visualization is very silly so much of reality makes no sense on linear scales, I suggest you use logarithmic scales and it all makes perfect sense. Unless a crony capitalist has corrupted the state to gain unfair advantage, has monopoly power, or is providing unnecessary services or providing weapons for war and embezzling public funds, then when they are successful they earned their “unearned” income in capital gains by providing a valuable service to the society. The impulse to strike them down and steal their capital is frankly disgusting and embarrassing. Nothing but Envy masquerading as Empathy!
    - spencerflem 2y ago
- kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
  Go live in a paradise like Somalia and keep your riches for yourself. Or if you want to live in civilization, you have to pay your share for the infrastructure and social stability that you reap the benefit of.
  - HideousKojima 2y ago
    Why would they want to live in the smoldering remains of a failed attempt at socialism? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Democratic_Republic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Democratic_Republic
    - piva00 2y ago
      Then perhaps they could go live in Liberia, the smoldering remains of a failed attempt at libertarianism.
      - alchemist1e9 2y ago
        Are you insane? an authoritarian dictator seizing power in a military coup and then embezzling all the wealth, printing money from the central bank, violating property rights and individual rights, using identity politics and attempting ethnic cleansing, and destroying free speech seem to be the absolute polar opposite of libertarianism! Isn’t it a perfect example of government failure and collectivism and authoritarianism creating death and destruction?
  - alchemist1e9 2y ago
    How to tell me you have zero understanding of libertarianism and capitalism without telling me!
- _uhtu 2y ago
  The money in this case is capital gains, which is fundamentally not "earned" income, it's income obtained by just having money.
  - alchemist1e9 2y ago
    I can see your training is now complete my dear socialist! It’s incredible how our education systems fail to teach the most basic economic realities to people. Capital gains result from allocating capital wisely and taking massive risk. This actually makes them very well “earned” in the one system that is most responsibly for the improvement of the human condition than any other system ever conceived by humans - hint: because it’s organic and natural! In contrast your socialist nonsense is an ideology based on Envy masquerading as Empathy. It is responsible for the most death and destruction by any system conceived by humans - hint: it’s because it’s evil and artificial! To attempt to steal from and punish the very capitalists responsible for lifting humanity up and forward due to Sloth and Envy is truly disgusting! It’s very interesting that extensive propaganda has somehow convinced newer generations that libertarian capitalism is actually anarchy, which it is absolutely not, if fact it’s not even related. Liberalism in the classic sense, and therefore libertarian capitalism, requires a strict government enforcement of property rights, individual rights, rule of law, and (extremely important!) to it’s health functioning a well regulated markets free from corruption! anarchy and oligarchy have no relation to capitalism! You are confused my dear socialist. Please help yourselves and learn the truth. Don’t live your lives consumed by the evils of Envy and Sloth! https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Niemietz-Socialism.pdf https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Niemietz-Socia...
    - greyface- 2y ago
      The IRS classifies "taxable interest, ordinary dividends, and capital gain distributions" as "unearned income" and "salaries, wages, tips" as "earned income" (see e.g. Form 1040 instructions). Are you suggesting that the IRS is pushing socialist propaganda?
      - alchemist1e9 2y ago

alchemist1e9 2y ago

“I have never understood why it is ‘greed’ to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else’s money.”

HideousKojima 2y ago
Because as Jesus said, "If there be any poor among you, do not give of your substance to them. Rather, have the Romans take it from that rich jerk down the road at spear-point and have them give a pittance to the poor and waste the rest on bureaucracy and wars."
- spencerflem 2y ago
  Jesus was famous for upturning the tables of the money lenders, and their church has a tithe
  - HideousKojima 2y ago
    Both of which are fine by me, and neither of which are state enforced resdistribution schemes to (allegedly) help the poor, so what's your point?
    - spencerflem 2y ago
      My point is, Jesus is not a good source to say that having Billionaires and Hundred Billionaires are OK, Here's an actual quote, not a made up sarcastic one "Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” and that the church itself runs one of the biggest "redistribution schemes"
      - HideousKojima 2y ago
        And I completely agree with what Jesus said. But that's something between the wealthy and God, not the wealthy and the state. And once again, various Christian churches' tithe and charity systems are voluntary, not enforced by state violence.
        spencerflem 2y ago
        Are you an anarchist? Because there's some argument there, I'm not writing it off. But in your world, does the govt use violence to stop people from doing what they want? For enforcing things like labor contracts? (a made up legal fiction that can only exist in the context of a state) If no: I commend you for imagining a world free from state violence. I don't have the vision for it myself but I can respect that. if yes: 1. Who funds the police, & 2. Why is violence legal only when done by the rich?
    - piva00 2y ago
      The state is not collecting taxes to "allegedly" help the poor, it's to help society as a whole. Who benefits from having a well educated society? Everyone. Who benefits from having a healthy society? Everyone. Who benefits from having well maintained infrastructure? Everyone. Who benefits from social safety nets, providing a soft landing in case of illness, failure at a business endeavour, etc.? Everyone. Your view that the state is only using taxes to help the poor is absurd, a well running government benefits a whole society.
- Brian_K_White 2y ago
  Was Jesus presented as any part of the reasoning behind this?
spencerflem 2y ago
Its not possible to become fantastically rich without the support of a state, or by essentially being a state. For Amazon to work, they need the roads that the govt built, the internet the govt invented, the cable the govt subsidised, the military and the police to protect their shipments and keep the workers in line, the courts to handle disputes and a million other things. Corporations themselves are a legal fiction made up by the state. Its incredibly fair to tax for this and Could Not Possibly work any other way. And on top of that, come on: look at https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/?v=3 https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/?v=3 and tell me that having hundreds of billions of dollars isn't greedy. 10 million (ie. thirty thousand times less) and you can retire in luxury.
- glimshe 2y ago
  Relative luxury. It gets you a great house, frequent travel, nice cars every year. But no jets or truly luxurious real estate (which would cost more than that alone). Still, I hear you.
- alchemist1e9 2y ago
  Thank you for at least being able to understand the most crucial and important function of the state is to create well regulated markets with law and order, along with property and individual rights they are necessary preconditions to capitalism. commentators have confused either oligarchy or anarchy for liberalism and capitalism. This is a profound cultural and educational failure that capitalism has been slandered in this way. Unfortunately the rest you likely have completely misunderstood. fwiw you visualization is very silly so much of reality makes no sense on linear scales, I suggest you use logarithmic scales and it all makes perfect sense. Unless a crony capitalist has corrupted the state to gain unfair advantage, has monopoly power, or is providing unnecessary services or providing weapons for war and embezzling public funds, then when they are successful they earned their “unearned” income in capital gains by providing a valuable service to the society. The impulse to strike them down and steal their capital is frankly disgusting and embarrassing. Nothing but Envy masquerading as Empathy!
  - spencerflem 2y ago
kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
Go live in a paradise like Somalia and keep your riches for yourself. Or if you want to live in civilization, you have to pay your share for the infrastructure and social stability that you reap the benefit of.
- HideousKojima 2y ago
  Why would they want to live in the smoldering remains of a failed attempt at socialism? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Democratic_Republic https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_Democratic_Republic
  - piva00 2y ago
    Then perhaps they could go live in Liberia, the smoldering remains of a failed attempt at libertarianism.
    - alchemist1e9 2y ago
      Are you insane? an authoritarian dictator seizing power in a military coup and then embezzling all the wealth, printing money from the central bank, violating property rights and individual rights, using identity politics and attempting ethnic cleansing, and destroying free speech seem to be the absolute polar opposite of libertarianism! Isn’t it a perfect example of government failure and collectivism and authoritarianism creating death and destruction?
- alchemist1e9 2y ago
  How to tell me you have zero understanding of libertarianism and capitalism without telling me!
_uhtu 2y ago
The money in this case is capital gains, which is fundamentally not "earned" income, it's income obtained by just having money.
- alchemist1e9 2y ago
  I can see your training is now complete my dear socialist! It’s incredible how our education systems fail to teach the most basic economic realities to people. Capital gains result from allocating capital wisely and taking massive risk. This actually makes them very well “earned” in the one system that is most responsibly for the improvement of the human condition than any other system ever conceived by humans - hint: because it’s organic and natural! In contrast your socialist nonsense is an ideology based on Envy masquerading as Empathy. It is responsible for the most death and destruction by any system conceived by humans - hint: it’s because it’s evil and artificial! To attempt to steal from and punish the very capitalists responsible for lifting humanity up and forward due to Sloth and Envy is truly disgusting! It’s very interesting that extensive propaganda has somehow convinced newer generations that libertarian capitalism is actually anarchy, which it is absolutely not, if fact it’s not even related. Liberalism in the classic sense, and therefore libertarian capitalism, requires a strict government enforcement of property rights, individual rights, rule of law, and (extremely important!) to it’s health functioning a well regulated markets free from corruption! anarchy and oligarchy have no relation to capitalism! You are confused my dear socialist. Please help yourselves and learn the truth. Don’t live your lives consumed by the evils of Envy and Sloth! https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Niemietz-Socialism.pdf https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Niemietz-Socia...
  - greyface- 2y ago
    The IRS classifies "taxable interest, ordinary dividends, and capital gain distributions" as "unearned income" and "salaries, wages, tips" as "earned income" (see e.g. Form 1040 instructions). Are you suggesting that the IRS is pushing socialist propaganda?
    - alchemist1e9 2y ago