4 ms·

Those who abstain entirely are disproportionately likely to be former alcoholics - which explains eg the apparent protective effect of moderate drinking

kranner 2y ago
I don’t see how that’s the most likely reason to abstain. A lot of religious people have never consumed an alcoholic drink; at least that is the case for South Asians: Muslims in particular, but also many Hindus and Sikhs.
- j_bum 2y ago
  This type of led to statistical issues that skewed our understanding of the health effects of alcohol consumption. Unless abstainers who previously abused alcohol are excluded or controlled for statistically, their health effects can skew results [0]. Here’s a blurb from a recent NYT article: > Fillmore was concerned about possible misleading variables in the studies: To start, they included ex-drinkers in the category of “abstainers,” which meant they were failing to account for the possibility that some people had stopped drinking specifically because of illness. The moderate drinkers looked healthy by comparison, creating the illusion that a moderate amount of alcohol was beneficial. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/15/magazine/alcohol-health-risks.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/15/magazine/alcohol-health-r...
  - khafra 2y ago
    And it's fairly difficult to make it an apples-to-apples comparison, suitable for causal analysis, by excluding the lifelong teetotalers who would have become alcoholics if they had ever partaken.
- criddell 2y ago
  The Presbyterian church my parents took me to used actual wine (with an option for grape juice) at communion. I think most people participating in the ceremony didn't consider that having a drink any more than if their prescription medicine contained alcohol.
  - AlgorithmicTime 2y ago
    [dead]
aulin 2y ago
Maybe in the US where the whole AA thing is popular and widespread. I'd be surprised if that's a factor at all elsewhere. Where I'm from I've never met anyone who would label themselves as 'former alcoholics'. I'm more inclined to think intelligence often times comes with a good dose of social anxiety and alcohol helps with managing it.
- mrcartmeneses 2y ago
  It’s easy to imagine lots of things
- homebrewer 2y ago
  You might have zero contacts with lower working class then. I live very far from the US in a very different society and know many former alcoholics who abstain entirely, or at least try to. Because it's hard enough for an alcoholic to avoid drinking, it's even harder to have just one drink and not slide into a full-blown, months-long binge.
  - ziggyzecat 2y ago
    Aaaaaaaaw yeah, baby. I 'member those times. Back then I knew the problem was the *quality* of the alcohol/drinks. Now, some years later. "My homie Jamal's" liquor costs 5-10 times that much and he puts effort into the mixtures, trying recipes, playing around with accent ingredients and modifiers and stuff. If we drink--we still drink quite a bit. But there's no month long binges no more and the immediate negative side effects on cognition are *GONE*.
- criddell 2y ago
  Most AA alumni don't call themselves former alcoholics. They see themselves as addicts who are glad they didn't have a drink yesterday and are doing their best to extend that streak through today.
The_Colonel 2y ago
Another factor is that people who have serious health problems are less likely to consume alcohol. These health problems may have an (indirect) effect on cognitive performance.
mdp2021 2y ago
Probably in some areas, surely not in the abstract general. Some people just do not take intoxicants.
bloqs 2y ago
What about entire dry cultures
wiether 2y ago
I haven't read the whole study so maybe it's not the right meaning, but I tend to agree with you if "to abstain" has been chosen for its actual meaning. Personally I don't drink alcohol, but I would never say that I am abstaining from drinking alcohol. I just don't do it. Same as eating green olives. Meanwhile, as you're pointing it out, people who say that they are abstaining from alcohol are likely to be former alcoholics. And say, people who's faith forbid them from drinking alcohol would probably fit in both : some just don't do it, others have to make a conscious effort to not do it.

kranner 2y ago

I don’t see how that’s the most likely reason to abstain. A lot of religious people have never consumed an alcoholic drink; at least that is the case for South Asians: Muslims in particular, but also many Hindus and Sikhs.

j_bum 2y ago
This type of led to statistical issues that skewed our understanding of the health effects of alcohol consumption. Unless abstainers who previously abused alcohol are excluded or controlled for statistically, their health effects can skew results [0]. Here’s a blurb from a recent NYT article: > Fillmore was concerned about possible misleading variables in the studies: To start, they included ex-drinkers in the category of “abstainers,” which meant they were failing to account for the possibility that some people had stopped drinking specifically because of illness. The moderate drinkers looked healthy by comparison, creating the illusion that a moderate amount of alcohol was beneficial. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/15/magazine/alcohol-health-risks.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/15/magazine/alcohol-health-r...
- khafra 2y ago
  And it's fairly difficult to make it an apples-to-apples comparison, suitable for causal analysis, by excluding the lifelong teetotalers who would have become alcoholics if they had ever partaken.
criddell 2y ago
The Presbyterian church my parents took me to used actual wine (with an option for grape juice) at communion. I think most people participating in the ceremony didn't consider that having a drink any more than if their prescription medicine contained alcohol.
- AlgorithmicTime 2y ago
  [dead]

aulin 2y ago

Maybe in the US where the whole AA thing is popular and widespread. I'd be surprised if that's a factor at all elsewhere. Where I'm from I've never met anyone who would label themselves as 'former alcoholics'. I'm more inclined to think intelligence often times comes with a good dose of social anxiety and alcohol helps with managing it.

mrcartmeneses 2y ago
It’s easy to imagine lots of things
homebrewer 2y ago
You might have zero contacts with lower working class then. I live very far from the US in a very different society and know many former alcoholics who abstain entirely, or at least try to. Because it's hard enough for an alcoholic to avoid drinking, it's even harder to have just one drink and not slide into a full-blown, months-long binge.
- ziggyzecat 2y ago
  Aaaaaaaaw yeah, baby. I 'member those times. Back then I knew the problem was the *quality* of the alcohol/drinks. Now, some years later. "My homie Jamal's" liquor costs 5-10 times that much and he puts effort into the mixtures, trying recipes, playing around with accent ingredients and modifiers and stuff. If we drink--we still drink quite a bit. But there's no month long binges no more and the immediate negative side effects on cognition are *GONE*.
criddell 2y ago
Most AA alumni don't call themselves former alcoholics. They see themselves as addicts who are glad they didn't have a drink yesterday and are doing their best to extend that streak through today.

The_Colonel 2y ago

Another factor is that people who have serious health problems are less likely to consume alcohol. These health problems may have an (indirect) effect on cognitive performance.

mdp2021 2y ago

Probably in some areas, surely not in the abstract general. Some people just do not take intoxicants.

bloqs 2y ago

What about entire dry cultures

wiether 2y ago

I haven't read the whole study so maybe it's not the right meaning, but I tend to agree with you if "to abstain" has been chosen for its actual meaning. Personally I don't drink alcohol, but I would never say that I am abstaining from drinking alcohol. I just don't do it. Same as eating green olives. Meanwhile, as you're pointing it out, people who say that they are abstaining from alcohol are likely to be former alcoholics. And say, people who's faith forbid them from drinking alcohol would probably fit in both : some just don't do it, others have to make a conscious effort to not do it.