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> However this culture of expecting websites to host the data then freeloading off it by blocking the tracking and ads is also a bit ugly. Let's use Facebook a

by RajT88 2y ago

> However this culture of expecting websites to host the data then freeloading off it by blocking the tracking and ads is also a bit ugly. Let's use Facebook as an example. You can't not get tracked by Facebook if you have a Facebook account. If you use it, they track you and monetize you somehow. All of your interactions with the site, and all your interactions with other users. Blocking as much of Facebook's ads and tracking as you can while keeping the site working means you are monetized somewhat less. You're still not freeloading. This is similar with other companies - you have to use the product, and they monetize your use of the product. Whether or not you see the ads in Gmail - they are still aggregating all of your data and monetizing it. Adblockers can be seen as a system of checks and balances and incentivize certain types of monetization over others. Don't get me wrong - I'm sympathetic to your argument. Google and Facebook can't run a service without being able to make a profit on it. I believe users should have measures of control over how they are monetized, and there should be clarity about how they are being monetized. Example: Google Maps keeps prompting me to turn on my location history. If I do, the TOS says they get to sell that to a bunch of people. That prompt to turn it on should be clear about this compromise. My wife doesn't mind; I do, but I had to read the TOS to understand the compromise is there in the first place. As an aside, I find it really interesting how content creators are being sponsored by companies in much the same way early radio shows had sponsored ads. Everything old is new again, and I find this un-blockable type of advertising to be totally fair, fine and normal.

nobody9999 2y ago
>You can't not get tracked by Facebook if you have a Facebook account. If you use it, they track you and monetize you somehow. All of your interactions with the site, and all your interactions with other users. Actually, Facebook will track you even if you don't have a Facebook account[0]. In fact, Facebook and others[1] track you whether or not you use their "services" or not. [0] https://www.howtogeek.com/768652/what-are-facebook-shadow-profiles-and-should-you-be-worried/ https://www.howtogeek.com/768652/what-are-facebook-shadow-pr... [1] Google (but we knew that, didn't we?) and data brokers[2] (but we knew that too, didn't we?) [2] https://privacyrights.org/resources/registered-data-brokers-united-states-2021 https://privacyrights.org/resources/registered-data-brokers-...
- RajT88 2y ago
  Yeah, I knew that but with enough effort you can block that too. I was being precise.
  - nobody9999 2y ago
    >Yeah, I knew that but with enough effort you can block that too. Can you? As of 2021, there were more than 500 registered data brokers in the US alone. And those brokers don't just use your Facebook profile (shadow or otherwise). Rather they source data from thousands of retailers, insurance companies, credit "rating" agencies, banks, etc., etc., etc. How exactly do you (because I certainly don't know how to do so) keep hundreds of discrete businesses from collecting data on you? Do you squat in a lean-to on private land not owned by you? Do you have a phone purchased by you (even with cash, most retailers have surveillance cameras)? Do you own a car? Is it registered? Do you not live in New Hampshire (the only state which doesn't require auto insurance)? Do you have a credit card in your name? Do you have any professional certifications? Are you married? Divorced? Pay taxes? If you really think you can block the level of tracking that goes on, you're either delusional or have a multi-billion dollar set of skills/ideas. Which might it be, do you think?
    - RajT88 2y ago
      I was only speaking of Facebook off-site tracking.
      - nobody9999 2y ago
        >I was only speaking of Facebook off-site tracking.' Fair enough. And while it's not a bad thing, it's just a small part of the problem, as I was reminded a few minutes ago when I received an email about this class-action lawsuit[0]. To be clear, I'm not trying to bust your chops or be dismissive of your point of view. Rather, I'm just (through serendipitous receipt of notification of the lawsuit discussed in the linked article) providing an example that Meta's evil ways are just the tip of the iceberg. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41497486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41497486

by RajT88 2y ago

nobody9999 2y ago

>You can't not get tracked by Facebook if you have a Facebook account. If you use it, they track you and monetize you somehow. All of your interactions with the site, and all your interactions with other users. Actually, Facebook will track you even if you don't have a Facebook account[0]. In fact, Facebook and others[1] track you whether or not you use their "services" or not. [0] https://www.howtogeek.com/768652/what-are-facebook-shadow-profiles-and-should-you-be-worried/ https://www.howtogeek.com/768652/what-are-facebook-shadow-pr... [1] Google (but we knew that, didn't we?) and data brokers[2] (but we knew that too, didn't we?) [2] https://privacyrights.org/resources/registered-data-brokers-united-states-2021 https://privacyrights.org/resources/registered-data-brokers-...

RajT88 2y ago
Yeah, I knew that but with enough effort you can block that too. I was being precise.
- nobody9999 2y ago
  >Yeah, I knew that but with enough effort you can block that too. Can you? As of 2021, there were more than 500 registered data brokers in the US alone. And those brokers don't just use your Facebook profile (shadow or otherwise). Rather they source data from thousands of retailers, insurance companies, credit "rating" agencies, banks, etc., etc., etc. How exactly do you (because I certainly don't know how to do so) keep hundreds of discrete businesses from collecting data on you? Do you squat in a lean-to on private land not owned by you? Do you have a phone purchased by you (even with cash, most retailers have surveillance cameras)? Do you own a car? Is it registered? Do you not live in New Hampshire (the only state which doesn't require auto insurance)? Do you have a credit card in your name? Do you have any professional certifications? Are you married? Divorced? Pay taxes? If you really think you can block the level of tracking that goes on, you're either delusional or have a multi-billion dollar set of skills/ideas. Which might it be, do you think?
  - RajT88 2y ago
    I was only speaking of Facebook off-site tracking.
    - nobody9999 2y ago
      >I was only speaking of Facebook off-site tracking.' Fair enough. And while it's not a bad thing, it's just a small part of the problem, as I was reminded a few minutes ago when I received an email about this class-action lawsuit[0]. To be clear, I'm not trying to bust your chops or be dismissive of your point of view. Rather, I'm just (through serendipitous receipt of notification of the lawsuit discussed in the linked article) providing an example that Meta's evil ways are just the tip of the iceberg. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41497486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41497486