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I'd say that's rather overestimating the philosophical importance of evolution. When you look at the arguments people actually make about God's existence (http

by Dove 14y ago

I'd say that's rather overestimating the philosophical importance of evolution. When you look at the arguments people actually make about God's existence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God), maybe one or two of them actually involve where ducks come from.

protomyth 14y ago
Considering the Catholic Church finds no contradiction between evolution and the faith, I too would say evolutions importance to the existence/non-existence of God is overrated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution
- dr42 14y ago
  You're rather neglecting the past thousand years or so where the Catholic Church would have you executed for thinking the earth wasn't flat. And let's not even mention their issue with women, witch hunts, and of course the Inquisition. And you're somewhat misleadingly misrepresenting that Wikipedia article. It actually says that the no-conflict position is an unofficial stance of the Vatican. It also (rather importantly neglected by your comment) says that their position is that humans are indeed special and need the existence of god. That's rather a conceited view of our species, but then this is coming from the same organization that spent much of the 13th century burning whole french villages...
  - Xcelerate 14y ago
    Okay, okay, I didn't mean to start one of these. Let's just get back to the AI discussion. (I do have a long paragraph about AI in the second part of my original post that has been neglected, you know).
  - protomyth 14y ago
    As to the first point: Slavery was once legal also, but that is no longer so. as to the second point: I would assume the Pope actually knows the opinion of the church and wrote so here: http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP961022.HTM http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP961022.HTM or http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/messages/pont_messages/1996/index_en.htm http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/messages/pont... As to point 3: see my response to 1 and yes, religions for the most part believe Humans are special. Being sentient tends to do that.
  - fsiefken 14y ago
    Both protestant and catholic theology (Schillebeeckx, Rahner, Kasper, Moltmann) have largely moved past such a stop gap god. The original poster is right, me and most practicing christians in my country (arguably it's different in the US) don't see a problem with evolution. Within the framework of Catholicism (the largest organized, most developed christian denomination) believing so is no problem at all, the "deposit of faith" allows this. The seeds for this have been sown in the early part of the 20th century. Concerning the specialness of the human person or soul, and the need for God; this is first and formost meant as theological language.
dr42 14y ago
I am not overstating, or even stating at all any philosophical importance of evolution. Evolution just is, it doesn't need, nor does it care about our human philosophies. Evolution began long ago before humans (obviously) and was working just fine with our without us giving it any thought whatsoever. I think you have it backwards, religion very much depends (with glorious irony) upon evolution, and our human condition of attributing agency where there is none. Meanwhile, with our without any of thinking any mythological super being, evolution carries right along, at the cellular level all the way up to who we are. I am not saying there is, or isn't a god (I honestly don't care, what does it matter?) - but I am saying that it's time we stopped burying our heads in the sand and ignoring science, while we hack off the limbs of anyone that doesn't share our particular god theory.

by Dove 14y ago

protomyth 14y ago

Considering the Catholic Church finds no contradiction between evolution and the faith, I too would say evolutions importance to the existence/non-existence of God is overrated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution

dr42 14y ago
You're rather neglecting the past thousand years or so where the Catholic Church would have you executed for thinking the earth wasn't flat. And let's not even mention their issue with women, witch hunts, and of course the Inquisition. And you're somewhat misleadingly misrepresenting that Wikipedia article. It actually says that the no-conflict position is an unofficial stance of the Vatican. It also (rather importantly neglected by your comment) says that their position is that humans are indeed special and need the existence of god. That's rather a conceited view of our species, but then this is coming from the same organization that spent much of the 13th century burning whole french villages...
- Xcelerate 14y ago
  Okay, okay, I didn't mean to start one of these. Let's just get back to the AI discussion. (I do have a long paragraph about AI in the second part of my original post that has been neglected, you know).
- protomyth 14y ago
  As to the first point: Slavery was once legal also, but that is no longer so. as to the second point: I would assume the Pope actually knows the opinion of the church and wrote so here: http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP961022.HTM http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP961022.HTM or http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/messages/pont_messages/1996/index_en.htm http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/messages/pont... As to point 3: see my response to 1 and yes, religions for the most part believe Humans are special. Being sentient tends to do that.
- fsiefken 14y ago
  Both protestant and catholic theology (Schillebeeckx, Rahner, Kasper, Moltmann) have largely moved past such a stop gap god. The original poster is right, me and most practicing christians in my country (arguably it's different in the US) don't see a problem with evolution. Within the framework of Catholicism (the largest organized, most developed christian denomination) believing so is no problem at all, the "deposit of faith" allows this. The seeds for this have been sown in the early part of the 20th century. Concerning the specialness of the human person or soul, and the need for God; this is first and formost meant as theological language.

dr42 14y ago

I am not overstating, or even stating at all any philosophical importance of evolution. Evolution just is, it doesn't need, nor does it care about our human philosophies. Evolution began long ago before humans (obviously) and was working just fine with our without us giving it any thought whatsoever. I think you have it backwards, religion very much depends (with glorious irony) upon evolution, and our human condition of attributing agency where there is none. Meanwhile, with our without any of thinking any mythological super being, evolution carries right along, at the cellular level all the way up to who we are. I am not saying there is, or isn't a god (I honestly don't care, what does it matter?) - but I am saying that it's time we stopped burying our heads in the sand and ignoring science, while we hack off the limbs of anyone that doesn't share our particular god theory.