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I’m in the market for a new vehicle and would like to purchase an EV. However, I also have a fear of the software becoming obsolete or no longer supported. I te

by cebert 2y ago

I’m in the market for a new vehicle and would like to purchase an EV. However, I also have a fear of the software becoming obsolete or no longer supported. I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time, my current vehicle is 12 years old.

johnea 2y ago
Like in the above comment, this isn't specifically an EV problem. All modern cars have this failure. I just bought a used 2023 Nissan Leaf. It's the last model year of the original design, and has many tactile mechanical button, not jut a tablet on the dash. It's also totally self sufficient WRT cloud connectivity. I'd highly ecommend this model and year...
- kccqzy 2y ago
  The Nissan Leaf has an air-cooled battery. Literally any other EV's battery will outlast the Nissan Leaf's in terms of degradation.
kccqzy 2y ago
I have an EV but I think of it as an appliance. I don't worry about the software becoming obsolete because the software is complete by the time it comes out of the factory. When I test drove the vehicle I found its state of software satisfactory and I would not need any new software or even need any support for the software. I also like the UI enough that I don't mind seeing the same UI for the next ten years without succumbing to the latest design fad. I understand that some Internet-required features (such as viewing real-time charger availability in the car) will certainly become unavailable. But I'm prepared to use my phone to do the same thing.
ggreer 2y ago
The important thing is to get a vehicle that is popular enough that there will be future demand for maintenance. That way even if the manufacturer goes under or drops support for that model, other companies will take up the mantle. This threshold is surprisingly quite low. There were around 2,400 Tesla Roadsters made. Although Tesla has dropped support for them, Gruber Motor Company will repair or maintain them. I think that's the only model that Tesla has dropped support for. The original Model S from 2012 is still supported by Tesla, and still gets software updates. Of course you won't get new features like self-driving improvements, but they still ship bug fixes and stuff like Spotify support. They also do maintenance and repairs, though I'm pretty sure all of the vehicles from that era are outside of warranty coverage. There are millions of Model 3s & Model Ys around. If you buy one of those, you'll never have to worry about finding someone to do maintenance or repairs.
- mook 2y ago
  Gruber appears to be in Arizona; I couldn't tell from skimming their website if that means they can't service vehicles in, say, Seattle?
  - qazxcvbnmlp 2y ago
    A common problem with internet advise is not understanding the nuances of everyone’s situation whom may have a particular issue. Unrelated, but its one of the reasons why unsolicited advice is distasteful.
  - ggreer 2y ago
    The kinds of people who own 1st gen Roadsters are willing to pay for a flatbed. My point is that they can be repaired, not that they can be repaired conveniently. It’s a similar story for all cars with such low production volumes. I’m pointing out the worst case scenario to show your fears are unwarranted. With popular vehicles, you’ll have no problem getting repairs for decades to come.
    - mook 2y ago
      Right; the context was somebody worrying about not having support, so saying that something can be essentially be maintained as a collector's car was kind of confusing.
avtolik 2y ago
In Eastern Europe there are a few places that an emulated Tesla server software is being run. And you can buy a car, say from US, and they will patch (hack?) it to use their server. I don't know how good it is feature wise, but it is good enough that the cars drive around. So to your point - you can probably use a car after the manufacturer is gone or stops supporting a vehicle. But this comes with a risk of trusting these not very legal enterprises.
- oblio 2y ago
  > In Eastern Europe there are a few places that an emulated Tesla server software is being run. Probably by the same people running third party WoW servers :-p
pornel 2y ago
Modern gas cars have all the same touchscreens, with the same software, and the same apps talking to the same servers. EVs are equated with being computers on wheels, but that's just because barely any BEVs existed in the pre-software era, so there aren't many people who vow to never upgrade from their 1976 Sebring CitiCar.

by cebert 2y ago

johnea 2y ago

Like in the above comment, this isn't specifically an EV problem. All modern cars have this failure. I just bought a used 2023 Nissan Leaf. It's the last model year of the original design, and has many tactile mechanical button, not jut a tablet on the dash. It's also totally self sufficient WRT cloud connectivity. I'd highly ecommend this model and year...

kccqzy 2y ago
The Nissan Leaf has an air-cooled battery. Literally any other EV's battery will outlast the Nissan Leaf's in terms of degradation.

kccqzy 2y ago

I have an EV but I think of it as an appliance. I don't worry about the software becoming obsolete because the software is complete by the time it comes out of the factory. When I test drove the vehicle I found its state of software satisfactory and I would not need any new software or even need any support for the software. I also like the UI enough that I don't mind seeing the same UI for the next ten years without succumbing to the latest design fad. I understand that some Internet-required features (such as viewing real-time charger availability in the car) will certainly become unavailable. But I'm prepared to use my phone to do the same thing.

ggreer 2y ago

The important thing is to get a vehicle that is popular enough that there will be future demand for maintenance. That way even if the manufacturer goes under or drops support for that model, other companies will take up the mantle. This threshold is surprisingly quite low. There were around 2,400 Tesla Roadsters made. Although Tesla has dropped support for them, Gruber Motor Company will repair or maintain them. I think that's the only model that Tesla has dropped support for. The original Model S from 2012 is still supported by Tesla, and still gets software updates. Of course you won't get new features like self-driving improvements, but they still ship bug fixes and stuff like Spotify support. They also do maintenance and repairs, though I'm pretty sure all of the vehicles from that era are outside of warranty coverage. There are millions of Model 3s & Model Ys around. If you buy one of those, you'll never have to worry about finding someone to do maintenance or repairs.

mook 2y ago
Gruber appears to be in Arizona; I couldn't tell from skimming their website if that means they can't service vehicles in, say, Seattle?
- qazxcvbnmlp 2y ago
  A common problem with internet advise is not understanding the nuances of everyone’s situation whom may have a particular issue. Unrelated, but its one of the reasons why unsolicited advice is distasteful.
- ggreer 2y ago
  The kinds of people who own 1st gen Roadsters are willing to pay for a flatbed. My point is that they can be repaired, not that they can be repaired conveniently. It’s a similar story for all cars with such low production volumes. I’m pointing out the worst case scenario to show your fears are unwarranted. With popular vehicles, you’ll have no problem getting repairs for decades to come.
  - mook 2y ago
    Right; the context was somebody worrying about not having support, so saying that something can be essentially be maintained as a collector's car was kind of confusing.

avtolik 2y ago

In Eastern Europe there are a few places that an emulated Tesla server software is being run. And you can buy a car, say from US, and they will patch (hack?) it to use their server. I don't know how good it is feature wise, but it is good enough that the cars drive around. So to your point - you can probably use a car after the manufacturer is gone or stops supporting a vehicle. But this comes with a risk of trusting these not very legal enterprises.

oblio 2y ago
> In Eastern Europe there are a few places that an emulated Tesla server software is being run. Probably by the same people running third party WoW servers :-p

pornel 2y ago

Modern gas cars have all the same touchscreens, with the same software, and the same apps talking to the same servers. EVs are equated with being computers on wheels, but that's just because barely any BEVs existed in the pre-software era, so there aren't many people who vow to never upgrade from their 1976 Sebring CitiCar.