5 ms·

The Lurker's Guide to Babylon5

132 points by Tomte 2y ago

bananapub 2y ago
this is one of those Good Parts of the Internet that were so much more common even ten years ago (and near-ubiquitous 25 years ago) than now, containing zero LLM slop, zero affiliate marketing, zero Medium modal login banners, no creepy ads from a trillionaire and no decaying Twitter links. it is just a bunch of useful info condensed out of discussions about Babylon 5 on Usenet in the mid 90's, including from posts from jms, who used to hang around and mostly cryptically answer questions. it's still online, largely unchanged, 30 years later, links unbroken, no begging for money for hosting fees, no Partnership With An Exciting Brand Partner. bless the editor and all who helped.
chasil 2y ago
"Lurkers" were mentioned several times in the show as a destitute underclass who lived "down below." Without fare for transport off the station, they were trapped.
- AStonesThrow 2y ago
  How did they get there in the first place, hitchhike? Straczynski was one of the first to actively participate in the Usenet group dedicated to his own show, creating a lot of buzz. Those who only read the news without posting were known as "lurkers".
  - earthboundkid 2y ago
    When I lived in Hawaii I knew a person who was a recovering drug addict with unstable housing who had gotten enough money to come to Hawaii at one point but not enough to leave. It can happen.
  - Izkata 2y ago
    > How did they get there in the first place, hitchhike? Plenty of reasons. A few crazy people live there, some running from the law or other authorities, some lose everything gambling, one has been there since the station was built and was afraid to leave. One episode centered around a teenage girl whos parents died so she resorted to stealing food. And then there's the episode "Gray 17 Is Missing".
sandyarmstrong 2y ago
This was the most important web destination for me in high school, so glad it's still up!
- helpfulclippy 2y ago
  Yep. I remember spending hours on that site -- I watched through when the SciFi channel re-ran B5, and I always pulled the Lurker's Guide up after each episode and read through each episode's discussion in its entirety. My brother did the same thing. We'd discuss at length afterwards. Had a huge impact on us. It's a fascinating site. Besides being a great commentary on a really good TV show, and a great example of how durable and usable 90s-era web could really be, it also encapsulates something about the position and velocity of culture at the time. The whole thing really reflects how TV shows were viewed at the time, and how the Internet was used at the time, and the hopes and ideals people had about where things would go.
  - sandyarmstrong 2y ago
    Yes, exactly! I'd seen an episode of B5 here and there, but it was hard to know what was going on. My family moved states when TNT bought the show and started airing the series in order 5 days a week as Season 5 was starting to come out. I didn't know anyone yet so the highlight of my day was coming home and watching the next episode, then reading the episode guide. It made me feel like part of a community.
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
Recently just read that the reason we don't have any re-masters, or new re-releases on streaming, is the original film was destroyed. Was pretty bummed. I thought it was just in some legal limbo that would be resolved eventually, not gone forever.
- throwanem 2y ago
  There is a remaster. It's quite good.
  - SG- 2y ago
    yes, I beleive the remaster uses AI upscaling.
    - compsciphd 2y ago
      the remaster uses the masters that were made. i.e. film for the non CGI aspects (which is just film so scans nicely) and composited / fully CGI printed to the film, but that was all rendered at SD TV resolutions (so is effectively upscaled).
    - TiredOfLife 2y ago
      You beleive wrong.
  - EndsOfnversion 2y ago
    There are several issues with remastering Babylon 5: 1) the variable frame rate: live action is 24p anything with CG is effectively 60p (both in a 60i container). This is difficult to do in HD. 2) a lot of the source materials for the CG are scattered to the winds, and the surviving stuff is in semi-obscure formats, that make re-rendering expensive. A few people on youtube have posted fan restorations of the CG based on source-material that have fallen into their hands, and it looks pretty good… but I can’t see WB making the same effort to restore the CG further. Maybe as AI upscaling improves - it might look better. 3) Questions around 16:9 vs 4:3 framing. Either way - great show - but HD doesn’t do some of the aets any favours.
NKosmatos 2y ago
Nostalgia just entered the room… These were the good old times when we had an excellent TV series (not only B5 but others like STTNG, DS9, BSG) and a cleaner/better internet with people that cared. Call me old school, bye these times are long gone and aren’t going to return.
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  BSG came quite a few years later (assuming you do mean the remake?). There were other gems around that time though. I was chatting to friends about the Outer Limits just yesterday. Plus let’s not forget the other Star Trek franchise; Voyager. I also love(d) Stargate SG1 (this was a little later too IIRC but much closer in time frame than BSG). There were some pretty weird shows too. Some people liked Fargate. I personally couldn’t get into that particular show. But I did enjoy Lexx. Edit: a little later (possibly around the time of BSG), but Firefly and Dollhouse shouldn’t be forgotten either.
  - 7thaccount 2y ago
    By Fargate, did you mean Farscape? I didn't watch it until like 10 years ago and really enjoyed it even though it's the opposite of Star Trek. Babylon 5 is what I grew up on at a very young age and it really partially shaped how I see the world today in a way.
    - pndy 2y ago
      I just recently started watching it while ignoring it years ago - back then I just simply didn't like that format Farscape along with Andromeda tried to introduce. But nowadays, both shows feel unique compared to other space operas and are quite enjoyable - just like old Star Trek and B5 are.
      - 7thaccount 2y ago
        They just re-released some kind of Farscape Anniversary comic via a Kickstarter campaign if you're interested. It seems to extend the story a bit.
blooalien 2y ago
I had so many hours of fun playin' with Lightwave 3D on my Commodore Amiga back when this show came out. Blender's my "go-to" software for all those needs now, but man... How amazing it felt to have access to the same exact software and hardware used to produce a major TV show (and a ton of commercials and other things around that industry) back then. Good times...
dayvid 2y ago
I haven't started it yet, but saw this viewing guide which helps reduce filler episodes for those wanting to get into the series with limited time: https://www.bjornmunson.com/2023/05/18/a-viewing-guide-for-babylon-5/ https://www.bjornmunson.com/2023/05/18/a-viewing-guide-for-b...
TillE 2y ago
Babylon 5 remains almost unique in its particular tone of melodrama, its very theatrical acting with larger-than-life characters. I love it for that, despite one or two actors who aren't very good. Midwinter's episode ratings are a pretty good guide to which ones are skippable, though there's only a handful of episodes that are truly disposable filler. It's a remarkable achievement for 90s TV.
- hnlmorg 2y ago
  It’s a funny show because it has so many flaws: - the acting is terrible, - dialog is pretty corny in places - the alien prosthetics look silly - the CGI, while technically impressive, look cartoonish (even in true in its era) Yes despite all this, it’s still amazing and, for me at least, it becomes very easy to look past those faults. In my opinion it’s one of the best sci-fi shows ever written for its world building. You genuinely buy into the politics. I just wish they weren’t messed around with the cancellation, then renewal of season 5 because that completely destroyed the pacing of the last two seasons.
  - cbanek 2y ago
    While some parts can be pretty corny, let me call out the music as amazing. Each episode has a lot more unique music than I thought!
  - pndy 2y ago
    Ivanova would personally rip your lungs out /s
  - jasonwatkinspdx 2y ago
    The CGI was done on a shoestring budget, originally on Amigas and eventually on Dec Alphas. They were using Lightwave3D, which at the time was on the edge of affordable to students or indie producers. So it was neat seeing a tv show doing something you could do yourself on your home PC with enough patience and determination. It's a remarkable achievement but yes, it does look rather dated sadly. My main annoyance with B5 is how the alien designs echo human historic stereotypes. A lot of sci fi falls in this trap. The Minbari are meditative asians. The Centari are a decaying franco-romanesque empire. The Narn are primitive and violent with dark skin and exaggerated facial features. The humans are plucky American go getters. The Vorlons are the only real original alien design, but were deliberately made a blank canvas of mystery. Mind you in no way do I think it was malicious, just a lazy writing crutch others have used. Star Trek TNG had some pretty glaring examples of the same thing in early seasons. Star Wars patterns the Jedi after Samurai. Even if there's a universe/plot justification for why all the alien species are humanoid variations too, I think it's a lot more interesting if the writers can come up with unique histories and cultures for the aliens.
hnlmorg 2y ago
Coincidentally, I recently (in the last few days) started rewatching B5.
- cpeterso 2y ago
  If you just started watching, I strongly recommend following the Lurker's Guide's viewing order, especially if you intend to watch the movies the Crusade spinoff: http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/eplist.html http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/eplist.html A comparison of the Lurker's Guide's and others' viewing order: https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Viewing_Order https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Viewing_Order
  - khuey 2y ago
    The Lurker's Guide's order having the movie "In the Beginning" first is controversial and not something I'd personally recommend. It spoils one of the major story arcs of the first two seasons. Their rearrangement of the TV episodes is fine.
    - cpeterso 2y ago
      I just reread the summary of “In The Beginning” and you’re absolutely correct. Do not watch this pilot first! I don’t know why the Lurker’s Guide (or JMS) recommend watching it first. I rewatched Babylon 5 recently and I’m glad I watched “In The Beginning” last.
      - khuey 2y ago
        The main reason to watch "In the Beginning" first IMO is that Season 1 is mostly world-building that doesn't start paying off until the very last episode of Season 1 and then into Season 2. If you're showing it to someone you think may not stick through the entire first season otherwise, watching ItB first demonstrates that this story really is going somewhere interesting and worth your time.
        2y ago
pndy 2y ago
J M Straczynski and B Zabel in 2004 wrote "Star Trek: Re-boot the universe" proposal > Concept > What we propose is not Star Trek: Another Generation, or Star Trek: A New Ship, or even Star Trek: The Search for Plots. In other words, not a copy of a copy, or a distillation of a variation. We want to re-boot STAR TREK. The original. Pure and simple. The characters, universe and situations that have attracted, and continue to attract, a worldwide audience. Re-set… re-imagined… re-invigorated… https://monsterscifishow.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/st2004reboot.pdf https://monsterscifishow.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/st2004r... And IIRC he also on few occasions mentioned he'd like to contribute to Doctor Who universe
- ed 2y ago
  Interesting link! But rebooting TOS seems even lazier than Star Trek: A New Ship. The universe is a big place; a decent writer can find a way to tell any story they want. (As demonstrated by the many IP-friendly reboots since 2004, when this was written.)
- JackMorgan 2y ago
  Fascinating that this is exactly what they did with the new Star Trek movies by JJ Abrams.
topkai22 2y ago
This is a great example of the non commercial works of passion that were a much larger post of the internet in the 90s. Text/picture web has lost a lot of personality of that era- this world have been crowded out by wikia or similar today. I readily admit the internet is more usable today, but in miss engaging with sites with a clear voice like this. And yes, the first 3.5 seasons of B5 are incredible.
beders 2y ago
It's unreal how fast these pages are loading.
- helpfulclippy 2y ago
  If you limit your bandwidth to 28.8kbps it’ll probably still load several times faster than a Wikia page.
Izkata 2y ago
I think my favorite "people don't recognize reality" moment is buried somewhere in one of the episode pages on here. And if I remember right, it even happened twice, with a different episode: One was a character that came on to interrogate the main cast, who had a scar on his face. After the episode aired people complained about how fake the scar looked and that it shouldn't have moved like that when he was talking. But actually, that was a real scar the actor has gotten in, I think, Vietnam. The other was, Centauri women shave their heads, and comments after one episode were about how fake one of the actresses' bald caps looked. If I remember right, that particular actress was going through cancer treatments and was actually bald in the episode.
- arp242 2y ago
  I'm not sure what the scar refers to; it sounds like Col. Ari Ben Zayn in Eyes, who does have a pretty silly-looking scar. It's played by Gregory Paul Martin, who does not have a scar.
  - Izkata 2y ago
    I must have gotten the two characters mixed up at some point because of their scars (and having found the entry again, I have no clue where I got "Vietnam" from): Boggs from Ceremonies of Light and Dark, played by Don Stroud. > Don Stroud got his scar by jumping into a crowd of men with knives to stop a woman from being raped, according to former story editor Larry DiTillio. > [..] > Boggs' scar wouldn't have moved like it did. > The physical dynamics of the scar would have worked as seen, actually, mainly because that wasn't a piece of makeup, that's a real scar, and it does work that way. > The scar is real. He had some rough times a few years ago. (Actually, he also appeared with the scar as it's seen here in "TKO," as Garibaldi's corner man, though there it was hidden a bit.) He's still doing a lot of work though. > (The funny thing was seeing the occasional comment on the nets saying how fake they thought the makeup looked, and why couldn't we manage to do something a bit more realistic looking?) http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/055.html http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/055.html
    - 2y ago
KevinMS 2y ago
Everybody don't forget to preload your browser cache here so the site is more responsive! http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/nav/ http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/nav/
wglass 2y ago
Wow. that brings back memories. My favorite website from the early 90s. I used to rush to check it out after each new episode to see the commentary. Love that it still exists 30 years later. There's a lot to say for a simple style.

132 points by Tomte 2y ago

this is one of those Good Parts of the Internet that were so much more common even ten years ago (and near-ubiquitous 25 years ago) than now, containing zero LLM slop, zero affiliate marketing, zero Medium modal login banners, no creepy ads from a trillionaire and no decaying Twitter links. it is just a bunch of useful info condensed out of discussions about Babylon 5 on Usenet in the mid 90's, including from posts from jms, who used to hang around and mostly cryptically answer questions. it's still online, largely unchanged, 30 years later, links unbroken, no begging for money for hosting fees, no Partnership With An Exciting Brand Partner. bless the editor and all who helped.

chasil 2y ago

"Lurkers" were mentioned several times in the show as a destitute underclass who lived "down below." Without fare for transport off the station, they were trapped.

AStonesThrow 2y ago
How did they get there in the first place, hitchhike? Straczynski was one of the first to actively participate in the Usenet group dedicated to his own show, creating a lot of buzz. Those who only read the news without posting were known as "lurkers".
- earthboundkid 2y ago
  When I lived in Hawaii I knew a person who was a recovering drug addict with unstable housing who had gotten enough money to come to Hawaii at one point but not enough to leave. It can happen.
- Izkata 2y ago
  > How did they get there in the first place, hitchhike? Plenty of reasons. A few crazy people live there, some running from the law or other authorities, some lose everything gambling, one has been there since the station was built and was afraid to leave. One episode centered around a teenage girl whos parents died so she resorted to stealing food. And then there's the episode "Gray 17 Is Missing".

sandyarmstrong 2y ago

This was the most important web destination for me in high school, so glad it's still up!

helpfulclippy 2y ago
Yep. I remember spending hours on that site -- I watched through when the SciFi channel re-ran B5, and I always pulled the Lurker's Guide up after each episode and read through each episode's discussion in its entirety. My brother did the same thing. We'd discuss at length afterwards. Had a huge impact on us. It's a fascinating site. Besides being a great commentary on a really good TV show, and a great example of how durable and usable 90s-era web could really be, it also encapsulates something about the position and velocity of culture at the time. The whole thing really reflects how TV shows were viewed at the time, and how the Internet was used at the time, and the hopes and ideals people had about where things would go.
- sandyarmstrong 2y ago
  Yes, exactly! I'd seen an episode of B5 here and there, but it was hard to know what was going on. My family moved states when TNT bought the show and started airing the series in order 5 days a week as Season 5 was starting to come out. I didn't know anyone yet so the highlight of my day was coming home and watching the next episode, then reading the episode guide. It made me feel like part of a community.

FrustratedMonky 2y ago

Recently just read that the reason we don't have any re-masters, or new re-releases on streaming, is the original film was destroyed. Was pretty bummed. I thought it was just in some legal limbo that would be resolved eventually, not gone forever.

throwanem 2y ago
There is a remaster. It's quite good.
- SG- 2y ago
  yes, I beleive the remaster uses AI upscaling.
  - compsciphd 2y ago
    the remaster uses the masters that were made. i.e. film for the non CGI aspects (which is just film so scans nicely) and composited / fully CGI printed to the film, but that was all rendered at SD TV resolutions (so is effectively upscaled).
  - TiredOfLife 2y ago
    You beleive wrong.
- EndsOfnversion 2y ago
  There are several issues with remastering Babylon 5: 1) the variable frame rate: live action is 24p anything with CG is effectively 60p (both in a 60i container). This is difficult to do in HD. 2) a lot of the source materials for the CG are scattered to the winds, and the surviving stuff is in semi-obscure formats, that make re-rendering expensive. A few people on youtube have posted fan restorations of the CG based on source-material that have fallen into their hands, and it looks pretty good… but I can’t see WB making the same effort to restore the CG further. Maybe as AI upscaling improves - it might look better. 3) Questions around 16:9 vs 4:3 framing. Either way - great show - but HD doesn’t do some of the aets any favours.

NKosmatos 2y ago

Nostalgia just entered the room… These were the good old times when we had an excellent TV series (not only B5 but others like STTNG, DS9, BSG) and a cleaner/better internet with people that cared. Call me old school, bye these times are long gone and aren’t going to return.

hnlmorg 2y ago
BSG came quite a few years later (assuming you do mean the remake?). There were other gems around that time though. I was chatting to friends about the Outer Limits just yesterday. Plus let’s not forget the other Star Trek franchise; Voyager. I also love(d) Stargate SG1 (this was a little later too IIRC but much closer in time frame than BSG). There were some pretty weird shows too. Some people liked Fargate. I personally couldn’t get into that particular show. But I did enjoy Lexx. Edit: a little later (possibly around the time of BSG), but Firefly and Dollhouse shouldn’t be forgotten either.
- 7thaccount 2y ago
  By Fargate, did you mean Farscape? I didn't watch it until like 10 years ago and really enjoyed it even though it's the opposite of Star Trek. Babylon 5 is what I grew up on at a very young age and it really partially shaped how I see the world today in a way.
  - pndy 2y ago
    I just recently started watching it while ignoring it years ago - back then I just simply didn't like that format Farscape along with Andromeda tried to introduce. But nowadays, both shows feel unique compared to other space operas and are quite enjoyable - just like old Star Trek and B5 are.
    - 7thaccount 2y ago
      They just re-released some kind of Farscape Anniversary comic via a Kickstarter campaign if you're interested. It seems to extend the story a bit.

blooalien 2y ago

I had so many hours of fun playin' with Lightwave 3D on my Commodore Amiga back when this show came out. Blender's my "go-to" software for all those needs now, but man... How amazing it felt to have access to the same exact software and hardware used to produce a major TV show (and a ton of commercials and other things around that industry) back then. Good times...

dayvid 2y ago

I haven't started it yet, but saw this viewing guide which helps reduce filler episodes for those wanting to get into the series with limited time: https://www.bjornmunson.com/2023/05/18/a-viewing-guide-for-babylon-5/ https://www.bjornmunson.com/2023/05/18/a-viewing-guide-for-b...

TillE 2y ago

Babylon 5 remains almost unique in its particular tone of melodrama, its very theatrical acting with larger-than-life characters. I love it for that, despite one or two actors who aren't very good. Midwinter's episode ratings are a pretty good guide to which ones are skippable, though there's only a handful of episodes that are truly disposable filler. It's a remarkable achievement for 90s TV.

hnlmorg 2y ago
It’s a funny show because it has so many flaws: - the acting is terrible, - dialog is pretty corny in places - the alien prosthetics look silly - the CGI, while technically impressive, look cartoonish (even in true in its era) Yes despite all this, it’s still amazing and, for me at least, it becomes very easy to look past those faults. In my opinion it’s one of the best sci-fi shows ever written for its world building. You genuinely buy into the politics. I just wish they weren’t messed around with the cancellation, then renewal of season 5 because that completely destroyed the pacing of the last two seasons.
- cbanek 2y ago
  While some parts can be pretty corny, let me call out the music as amazing. Each episode has a lot more unique music than I thought!
- pndy 2y ago
  Ivanova would personally rip your lungs out /s
- jasonwatkinspdx 2y ago
  The CGI was done on a shoestring budget, originally on Amigas and eventually on Dec Alphas. They were using Lightwave3D, which at the time was on the edge of affordable to students or indie producers. So it was neat seeing a tv show doing something you could do yourself on your home PC with enough patience and determination. It's a remarkable achievement but yes, it does look rather dated sadly. My main annoyance with B5 is how the alien designs echo human historic stereotypes. A lot of sci fi falls in this trap. The Minbari are meditative asians. The Centari are a decaying franco-romanesque empire. The Narn are primitive and violent with dark skin and exaggerated facial features. The humans are plucky American go getters. The Vorlons are the only real original alien design, but were deliberately made a blank canvas of mystery. Mind you in no way do I think it was malicious, just a lazy writing crutch others have used. Star Trek TNG had some pretty glaring examples of the same thing in early seasons. Star Wars patterns the Jedi after Samurai. Even if there's a universe/plot justification for why all the alien species are humanoid variations too, I think it's a lot more interesting if the writers can come up with unique histories and cultures for the aliens.

hnlmorg 2y ago

Coincidentally, I recently (in the last few days) started rewatching B5.

cpeterso 2y ago
If you just started watching, I strongly recommend following the Lurker's Guide's viewing order, especially if you intend to watch the movies the Crusade spinoff: http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/eplist.html http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/eplist.html A comparison of the Lurker's Guide's and others' viewing order: https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Viewing_Order https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Viewing_Order
- khuey 2y ago
  The Lurker's Guide's order having the movie "In the Beginning" first is controversial and not something I'd personally recommend. It spoils one of the major story arcs of the first two seasons. Their rearrangement of the TV episodes is fine.
  - cpeterso 2y ago
    I just reread the summary of “In The Beginning” and you’re absolutely correct. Do not watch this pilot first! I don’t know why the Lurker’s Guide (or JMS) recommend watching it first. I rewatched Babylon 5 recently and I’m glad I watched “In The Beginning” last.
    - khuey 2y ago
      The main reason to watch "In the Beginning" first IMO is that Season 1 is mostly world-building that doesn't start paying off until the very last episode of Season 1 and then into Season 2. If you're showing it to someone you think may not stick through the entire first season otherwise, watching ItB first demonstrates that this story really is going somewhere interesting and worth your time.
      - 2y ago

pndy 2y ago

J M Straczynski and B Zabel in 2004 wrote "Star Trek: Re-boot the universe" proposal > Concept > What we propose is not Star Trek: Another Generation, or Star Trek: A New Ship, or even Star Trek: The Search for Plots. In other words, not a copy of a copy, or a distillation of a variation. We want to re-boot STAR TREK. The original. Pure and simple. The characters, universe and situations that have attracted, and continue to attract, a worldwide audience. Re-set… re-imagined… re-invigorated… https://monsterscifishow.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/st2004reboot.pdf https://monsterscifishow.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/st2004r... And IIRC he also on few occasions mentioned he'd like to contribute to Doctor Who universe

ed 2y ago
Interesting link! But rebooting TOS seems even lazier than Star Trek: A New Ship. The universe is a big place; a decent writer can find a way to tell any story they want. (As demonstrated by the many IP-friendly reboots since 2004, when this was written.)
JackMorgan 2y ago
Fascinating that this is exactly what they did with the new Star Trek movies by JJ Abrams.

topkai22 2y ago

This is a great example of the non commercial works of passion that were a much larger post of the internet in the 90s. Text/picture web has lost a lot of personality of that era- this world have been crowded out by wikia or similar today. I readily admit the internet is more usable today, but in miss engaging with sites with a clear voice like this. And yes, the first 3.5 seasons of B5 are incredible.

beders 2y ago

It's unreal how fast these pages are loading.

helpfulclippy 2y ago
If you limit your bandwidth to 28.8kbps it’ll probably still load several times faster than a Wikia page.

Izkata 2y ago

I think my favorite "people don't recognize reality" moment is buried somewhere in one of the episode pages on here. And if I remember right, it even happened twice, with a different episode: One was a character that came on to interrogate the main cast, who had a scar on his face. After the episode aired people complained about how fake the scar looked and that it shouldn't have moved like that when he was talking. But actually, that was a real scar the actor has gotten in, I think, Vietnam. The other was, Centauri women shave their heads, and comments after one episode were about how fake one of the actresses' bald caps looked. If I remember right, that particular actress was going through cancer treatments and was actually bald in the episode.

arp242 2y ago
I'm not sure what the scar refers to; it sounds like Col. Ari Ben Zayn in Eyes, who does have a pretty silly-looking scar. It's played by Gregory Paul Martin, who does not have a scar.
- Izkata 2y ago
  I must have gotten the two characters mixed up at some point because of their scars (and having found the entry again, I have no clue where I got "Vietnam" from): Boggs from Ceremonies of Light and Dark, played by Don Stroud. > Don Stroud got his scar by jumping into a crowd of men with knives to stop a woman from being raped, according to former story editor Larry DiTillio. > [..] > Boggs' scar wouldn't have moved like it did. > The physical dynamics of the scar would have worked as seen, actually, mainly because that wasn't a piece of makeup, that's a real scar, and it does work that way. > The scar is real. He had some rough times a few years ago. (Actually, he also appeared with the scar as it's seen here in "TKO," as Garibaldi's corner man, though there it was hidden a bit.) He's still doing a lot of work though. > (The funny thing was seeing the occasional comment on the nets saying how fake they thought the makeup looked, and why couldn't we manage to do something a bit more realistic looking?) http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/055.html http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/055.html
  - 2y ago

KevinMS 2y ago

Everybody don't forget to preload your browser cache here so the site is more responsive! http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/nav/ http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/nav/

wglass 2y ago

Wow. that brings back memories. My favorite website from the early 90s. I used to rush to check it out after each new episode to see the commentary. Love that it still exists 30 years later. There's a lot to say for a simple style.