4 ms·

>My point was if you are going for a safer high-level llvm language, than there are far better options than Rust Mind naming any? Mind naming any that aren't j

>My point was if you are going for a safer high-level llvm language, than there are far better options than Rust Mind naming any? Mind naming any that aren't just toy languages?

Joel_Mckay 2y ago
All programming languages are toys from my perspective, so your question only can receive a paradoxical opinion. In general, I'm a Julia Fan, and Xcode escapee (supports: Swift, C++, Objective-C, Objective-C++, Java, AppleScript, Python, Ruby, C, Pascal, Ada, C#, Go, Perl, and D.) However, I'd trust only C in a non-llvm compiled role for real-time firmware. The answer as to "why?" takes about a decade to fully understand... Sometimes a bit longer for some... Sometimes never for others... =3
- wtallis 2y ago
  You keep making odd references to llvm. Is there some reason you believe a decent compiler cannot be built using llvm, or are you harboring some misconceptions about what llvm is based on the "vm" part of the name?
  - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
    ARM released several SoC products that blurred the use-cases in "A"pplications, "R"eal-time systems, and embedded "M"icrocontrollers. However, the llvm compilers performance gains are only justifiable in multitasking/Application contexts, where one does not require predictable/verifiable real-time code motion behavior in well modeled stable execution use-cases. Probably not cool enough to clear a project on Rust yet... and note repeating myself about why differing use-cases matter usually requires a paid invoice. =3
    - wtallis 2y ago
      > predictable/verifiable real-time code motion behavior That still sounds like you might be failing to understand that a compiler based on llvm can (and usually does) produce native machine code that is fully compiled and not running in any kind of JIT or virtual machine environment. And compilers like clang let you turn of optimizations just like gcc does.
      - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
        Clang and various gcc ports are my daily driver tool-sets. However, they are used in vastly different contexts for well specified reasons (notably, the very same reasons Rust is inappropriate where gcc shines.) Perhaps there is some subtlety lost in my words, but I assure you it will be unproductive to guess what my thoughts are... given they primarily revolve around cheese Goldfish Crackers. We could talk about the endangered Breviceps macrops instead... those creatures are hilarious. =3 https://youtu.be/HBxn56l9WcU?feature=shared&t=8 https://youtu.be/HBxn56l9WcU?feature=shared&t=8
        wtallis 2y ago
        > Clang and various gcc ports are my daily driver tool-sets. However, they are used in vastly different contexts for well specified reasons "Well specified" where exactly? You keep alluding to the existence of some significant, fundamental differences with llvm-based tools that disqualify them from their intended use cases, without providing any hint of what you think those differences are. > Perhaps there is some subtlety lost in my words, but I assure you it will be unproductive to guess what my thoughts are It's so hard to understand what exactly it is you're trying to communicate that I cannot tell if you are being deliberately bad at communicating, and whether linking to a video of a frog is intended as an insult. Please put some effort into clearly stating fully-formed thoughts.
        Joel_Mckay 2y ago
        The llvm optimization essentially makes the source codes implicit structure execution time unpredictable each compilation ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_motion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_motion .) If all you care about is perceived latency under human perception, than the cooked performance of llvm can improve 12% to 23% over traditional gcc for multitasking/Application use-cases in my observation ( https://llvm.org/docs/CompileCudaWithLLVM.html https://llvm.org/docs/CompileCudaWithLLVM.html .) The non-optimized gcc C builds are sometimes desirable for fixed latency real-time use-cases like 2/3rds of ARMs chip lines intended markets ( https://developer.arm.com/downloads/search?programme=Free+to+Download https://developer.arm.com/downloads/search?programme=Free+to... ) Are you confusing Real-Time and guaranteed-latency-schedulers as being the same thing? This is a commonly conflated concept from marketers, and the naive. I kind of like the newer RP204x chips designs (still would never use them commercially yet), as it tried to handle GPIO domain RT and Application coding paradigms on the same silicon in a way people could better comprehend ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_domain_crossing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_domain_crossing .) Don't worry about it, at some point it will make sense... or not... cheese Goldfish crackers nom nom nom =3
- anonfordays 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
    Very rude, did you actually have constructive input, or just the vitriol? Have a nice day, =3
    - anonfordays 2y ago
      Warning others that you're schizoposting is constructive input.
      - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
        I think you miss George Carlin, and fear people won't like the real you. Antagonizing strangers around yourself to sabotage ones own happiness out of fear of emotional connections is not a healthy place to live. Maybe a nice walk in the sun, or volunteer with a local pet-rescue society would help one feel better. Have a nice day, =3
        anonfordays 2y ago
        >I think you miss George Carlin What does this mean? >and fear people won't like the real you Projecting like AMC. >Antagonizing strangers around yourself to sabotage ones own happiness out of fear of emotional connections is not a healthy place to live. I'm not antagonizing anyone, and you're not around me. >Maybe a nice walk in the sun Already do. >or volunteer with a local pet-rescue society would help one feel better. Also already do this. >Have a nice day, =3 You too.
        anonfordays 2y ago
        No schizopost reply. I'm shocked honestly.

>My point was if you are going for a safer high-level llvm language, than there are far better options than Rust Mind naming any? Mind naming any that aren't just toy languages?

Joel_Mckay 2y ago

All programming languages are toys from my perspective, so your question only can receive a paradoxical opinion. In general, I'm a Julia Fan, and Xcode escapee (supports: Swift, C++, Objective-C, Objective-C++, Java, AppleScript, Python, Ruby, C, Pascal, Ada, C#, Go, Perl, and D.) However, I'd trust only C in a non-llvm compiled role for real-time firmware. The answer as to "why?" takes about a decade to fully understand... Sometimes a bit longer for some... Sometimes never for others... =3

wtallis 2y ago
You keep making odd references to llvm. Is there some reason you believe a decent compiler cannot be built using llvm, or are you harboring some misconceptions about what llvm is based on the "vm" part of the name?
- Joel_Mckay 2y ago
  ARM released several SoC products that blurred the use-cases in "A"pplications, "R"eal-time systems, and embedded "M"icrocontrollers. However, the llvm compilers performance gains are only justifiable in multitasking/Application contexts, where one does not require predictable/verifiable real-time code motion behavior in well modeled stable execution use-cases. Probably not cool enough to clear a project on Rust yet... and note repeating myself about why differing use-cases matter usually requires a paid invoice. =3
  - wtallis 2y ago
    > predictable/verifiable real-time code motion behavior That still sounds like you might be failing to understand that a compiler based on llvm can (and usually does) produce native machine code that is fully compiled and not running in any kind of JIT or virtual machine environment. And compilers like clang let you turn of optimizations just like gcc does.
    - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
      Clang and various gcc ports are my daily driver tool-sets. However, they are used in vastly different contexts for well specified reasons (notably, the very same reasons Rust is inappropriate where gcc shines.) Perhaps there is some subtlety lost in my words, but I assure you it will be unproductive to guess what my thoughts are... given they primarily revolve around cheese Goldfish Crackers. We could talk about the endangered Breviceps macrops instead... those creatures are hilarious. =3 https://youtu.be/HBxn56l9WcU?feature=shared&t=8 https://youtu.be/HBxn56l9WcU?feature=shared&t=8
      - wtallis 2y ago
        > Clang and various gcc ports are my daily driver tool-sets. However, they are used in vastly different contexts for well specified reasons "Well specified" where exactly? You keep alluding to the existence of some significant, fundamental differences with llvm-based tools that disqualify them from their intended use cases, without providing any hint of what you think those differences are. > Perhaps there is some subtlety lost in my words, but I assure you it will be unproductive to guess what my thoughts are It's so hard to understand what exactly it is you're trying to communicate that I cannot tell if you are being deliberately bad at communicating, and whether linking to a video of a frog is intended as an insult. Please put some effort into clearly stating fully-formed thoughts.
        Joel_Mckay 2y ago
        The llvm optimization essentially makes the source codes implicit structure execution time unpredictable each compilation ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_motion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_motion .) If all you care about is perceived latency under human perception, than the cooked performance of llvm can improve 12% to 23% over traditional gcc for multitasking/Application use-cases in my observation ( https://llvm.org/docs/CompileCudaWithLLVM.html https://llvm.org/docs/CompileCudaWithLLVM.html .) The non-optimized gcc C builds are sometimes desirable for fixed latency real-time use-cases like 2/3rds of ARMs chip lines intended markets ( https://developer.arm.com/downloads/search?programme=Free+to+Download https://developer.arm.com/downloads/search?programme=Free+to... ) Are you confusing Real-Time and guaranteed-latency-schedulers as being the same thing? This is a commonly conflated concept from marketers, and the naive. I kind of like the newer RP204x chips designs (still would never use them commercially yet), as it tried to handle GPIO domain RT and Application coding paradigms on the same silicon in a way people could better comprehend ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_domain_crossing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_domain_crossing .) Don't worry about it, at some point it will make sense... or not... cheese Goldfish crackers nom nom nom =3
anonfordays 2y ago
[flagged]
- Joel_Mckay 2y ago
  Very rude, did you actually have constructive input, or just the vitriol? Have a nice day, =3
  - anonfordays 2y ago
    Warning others that you're schizoposting is constructive input.
    - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
      I think you miss George Carlin, and fear people won't like the real you. Antagonizing strangers around yourself to sabotage ones own happiness out of fear of emotional connections is not a healthy place to live. Maybe a nice walk in the sun, or volunteer with a local pet-rescue society would help one feel better. Have a nice day, =3
      - anonfordays 2y ago
        >I think you miss George Carlin What does this mean? >and fear people won't like the real you Projecting like AMC. >Antagonizing strangers around yourself to sabotage ones own happiness out of fear of emotional connections is not a healthy place to live. I'm not antagonizing anyone, and you're not around me. >Maybe a nice walk in the sun Already do. >or volunteer with a local pet-rescue society would help one feel better. Also already do this. >Have a nice day, =3 You too.
        anonfordays 2y ago
        No schizopost reply. I'm shocked honestly.