5 ms·
Can you expand what you mean when you say the security of phone numbers is leagues below email? If someone can gain access to someone's phone, it seems like the
by nfw2 2y ago
Can you expand what you mean when you say the security of phone numbers is leagues below email? If someone can gain access to someone's phone, it seems like they would gain access to their email as well.
- tptacek 2y agoPhone number, not phone.
- nfw2 2y agoHow does an attacker gain access to a phone number without having the phone? Like physically stealing the sim card or something else?
- fragmede 2y agobribe, coerce, and social engineer a phone company employee into transferring the victims phone number to you, or a technical attack to get the system to send the sms messages to a device you control, without ever touching the victim.
- Zanfa 2y agoThe attacker just needs to convince/compromise a single carrier employee to get a new SIM for your number.
- 57FkMytWjyFu 2y agoSim swap via pretending to be a clueless customer who lost their physical phone, banking on lax checks at customer service.
- oretoz 2y agoAs others have mentioned, SIM Swap attacks are very common where the attacker impersonates the victim and convinces the mobile operator to transfer the victim’s phone number (known as MSISDN in telecom parlance) to the attacker’s SIM. If you Google SIM Swap, you will find many instances of it. From that moment onwards, all the 2nd factor SMS OTP go to the attacker. There are APIs that are provided by mobile operators via aggregators such as Telesign, Prove, Vonage, Twilio etc. that can be used to check if a SIM Swap has happened recently on that phone number. That API is used by fintech companies and others e.g. when they want to check if a fund transfer is to be allowed or flagged up.
- efitz 2y agoMobile phones identify themselves to the mobile network through a number called the IMEI. IMEI cloning is not particularly difficult nor does it require exotic equipment. This means that it is relatively easy for an attacker to be able to spoof your phone to a mobile network, for example, to receive SMS messages with one time passwords. Cloning your IMEI has nothing to do with the data that is on your phone, so if someone clones your IMEI it does not mean that they have access to any of the apps or data that is on your phone.
- nfw2 2y agoThanks for the clarification!
- kjellsbells 2y agoIMEI or IMSI? I think it is the subscriber identity that is on the SIM that needs to be cloned, not the hardware identifier of the device (ie its the IMSI that matters, not the IMEI). SIMs and SIM burners can be purchased trivially on the open market, and cloned without too much difficulty. Although, a social engineering attack on the employee at the cellphone store is a superior method since it automatically gives you a "known good" SIM with the operator's keys, etc.
- lxgr 2y agoNeither the IMEI nor the IMSI is used for authentication. The IMSI is slightly closer to the truth (while still missing by a mile), but without the per-IMSI authentication key (which is never transmitted over the air interface, whether in plaintext or encrypted), it's useless as well.
- lxgr 2y agoThat's completely wrong. The IMEI doesn't play any role in GSM/UMTS/LTE/5G authentication (if it's recorded, that's usually for debugging or tracking purposes). While there are weaknesses, every mobile phone standard since GSM (not sure about the equivalent for the CDMA world) uses cryptographic authentication, many of which have been subsequently broken, but it's just not true that simple knowledge of a bearer token, transmitted over the air interface, grants you sufficient access to receive somebody else's SMS. Most practical attacks actually focus on either attacking the core network via SS7 (and making it deliver SMS to the attacker instead of the actual recipient) or on breaking the air interface encryption, which requires you to be physically close to the legitimate recipient while they receive the SMS over the air. You can change your IMEI to mine right now, and absolutely nothing would happen (other than maybe our phone operator getting mildly confused, if we share one and they're tracking IMEIs for whatever reason).
- jpalomaki 2y agoPhone companied have customer support. This is a weak point, because attacker can use social engineering to gain access to your number.
- j45 2y agoSMS codes for anything are not secure. Convenience over security, maybe. SMS are as secure as a letter compared to a postcard.
- paradox460 2y agoAnd they're rather irritating to boot. TOTP authentication in something like keypass or 1password is very low friction, working automatically in ideal circumstances. Sms based ones are kludgy