4 ms·

Orwell wrote two books which purported to sketch different societies from his own mid-century english one: In 1984, the inner party sell the story of "english

Orwell wrote two books which purported to sketch different societies from his own mid-century english one: In 1984, the inner party sell the story of "english socialism", although closer inspection reveals a tripartite distinction in which they (nomenklatura) derive most of the benefit from a system administered by the outer party (apparatchiks, kept on a tight leash) and staffed by the proles (who have more freedom than outer party members, because, well, they're harmless). In Animal Farm, the pigs sell the story of "animalism", although closer inspection reveals a tripartite distinction in which they derive most of the benefit from a system administered by the dogs and staffed by the other animals. In 1984, the distinction between inner and outer party is in theory not a matter of family background, but depends merely upon performance on standardised exams during adolescence. If we can push the loose parallels between the two works, then we'd expect that according to Orwell's model of animals, while pigs are the brightest among the domesticated species, dogs are not far behind in intellect? Do we expect he'd have been surprised at TFA's reporting? Lagniappe: https://ribbonfarm.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/hughMcLeodCompanyHierarchy.jpg https://ribbonfarm.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/20... (I know dogs buy into The House Rules so much that they can be remarkably guilty-looking if you run across clear evidence of them having done something they were supposed not to do; the question Venkatesh Rao might ask is if any dogs ever attempt to shift the blame onto another critter?)

smogcutter 2y ago
In the case of animal farm, it’s not so much that the dogs are more intelligent than the other animals as that Napoleon takes advantage of their disposition to unshakeable loyalty and need for a master. Likewise, unfortunately, in life. If you have to rank the animals by intelligence, second (or first, even?) is certainly Benjamin the donkey.
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  Looking through Rao's prism (in which disposition to unshakeable loyalty is a "clueless" trait), Benjamin is a clear "sociopath" candidate: he's (a) laconic, and (b) underperforming. [In the 80s, Rabinovich was allowed a tour of Europe. He sent telegrams from everywhere: "Greetings from free Bulgaria. Rabinovich" "Greetings from free Romania. Rabinovich" "Greetings from free Hungary. Rabinovich" "Greetings from Austria. Free Rabinovich"]
  - smogcutter 2y ago
    In Rao’s model, the sociopaths and losers share an understanding that the organization exists for the benefit of the sociopaths, they just respond to it differently. It’s only the clueless who are bamboozled. So idk if it’s a great lens for AF, where all the proletarian animals are more or less equally taken in. But anyway, Benjamin is definitely a loser, not a sociopath! He comes closest to understanding what’s happening, and his response is to put his head down, so his job, and seek meaning outside the political game. A Ryan-type sociopath candidate would ditch work to make a political play. Benjamin is Stanley.
    - gradschoolfail 2y ago
      Tiny nitpick: Benjamin certainly would not want to become a sociopath, but the incumbent sociopaths would doubtlessly love to promote him into their ranks, surreptitiously. Confidence in the power of power to corrupt! (Usually misplaced, thankfully, despite media) (To abuse a Ridley Scott favourite: slip a Marechal’s baton into his rucksack) [this is opposite of the Rabinovich “strategy”, which hints that YC are not sociopaths] EDIT: I dont think this is comparable to Steve Jobs’ 100-Person Retreat without more insider data, e.g., https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41416275 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41416275 Would be interested to know if anybody got promoted as a result of these retreats, my hunch is, no, because everybody knows about the 100-person retreat. EDIT 2: another system to compare with, kind of the opposite of Rao’s model, is the Lambeth race, thats more like openly favouring the tortoise? So that no rabbit would sign up in the first place. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41468567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41468567
      - 082349872349872 2y ago
        Then again, in the universe of Benjamin/Squealer fanfic, who's to say we couldn't find the following convo? — ... Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself. — Is it possible to learn this power? — Not from a pig.
        gradschoolfail 2y ago

smogcutter 2y ago

In the case of animal farm, it’s not so much that the dogs are more intelligent than the other animals as that Napoleon takes advantage of their disposition to unshakeable loyalty and need for a master. Likewise, unfortunately, in life. If you have to rank the animals by intelligence, second (or first, even?) is certainly Benjamin the donkey.

082349872349872 2y ago
Looking through Rao's prism (in which disposition to unshakeable loyalty is a "clueless" trait), Benjamin is a clear "sociopath" candidate: he's (a) laconic, and (b) underperforming. [In the 80s, Rabinovich was allowed a tour of Europe. He sent telegrams from everywhere: "Greetings from free Bulgaria. Rabinovich" "Greetings from free Romania. Rabinovich" "Greetings from free Hungary. Rabinovich" "Greetings from Austria. Free Rabinovich"]
- smogcutter 2y ago
  In Rao’s model, the sociopaths and losers share an understanding that the organization exists for the benefit of the sociopaths, they just respond to it differently. It’s only the clueless who are bamboozled. So idk if it’s a great lens for AF, where all the proletarian animals are more or less equally taken in. But anyway, Benjamin is definitely a loser, not a sociopath! He comes closest to understanding what’s happening, and his response is to put his head down, so his job, and seek meaning outside the political game. A Ryan-type sociopath candidate would ditch work to make a political play. Benjamin is Stanley.
  - gradschoolfail 2y ago
    Tiny nitpick: Benjamin certainly would not want to become a sociopath, but the incumbent sociopaths would doubtlessly love to promote him into their ranks, surreptitiously. Confidence in the power of power to corrupt! (Usually misplaced, thankfully, despite media) (To abuse a Ridley Scott favourite: slip a Marechal’s baton into his rucksack) [this is opposite of the Rabinovich “strategy”, which hints that YC are not sociopaths] EDIT: I dont think this is comparable to Steve Jobs’ 100-Person Retreat without more insider data, e.g., https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41416275 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41416275 Would be interested to know if anybody got promoted as a result of these retreats, my hunch is, no, because everybody knows about the 100-person retreat. EDIT 2: another system to compare with, kind of the opposite of Rao’s model, is the Lambeth race, thats more like openly favouring the tortoise? So that no rabbit would sign up in the first place. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41468567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41468567
    - 082349872349872 2y ago
      Then again, in the universe of Benjamin/Squealer fanfic, who's to say we couldn't find the following convo? — ... Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself. — Is it possible to learn this power? — Not from a pig.
      - gradschoolfail 2y ago