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That's kind of fucked up. They're reinforcing the fact that he should be worried about his food. They're training him to be anxious. If he doesn't want to eat,

That's kind of fucked up. They're reinforcing the fact that he should be worried about his food. They're training him to be anxious. If he doesn't want to eat, there's no reason to make him. He'll eat when he's hungry.

dboreham 2y ago
Perhaps once it's in the model, it's so hard to re-train that the animal will starve itself in service of the training data?
- morkalork 2y ago
  I'm pretty sure if you leave a dog alone with a bowl of food long enough, they'll eat it.
- jjtheblunt 2y ago
  natural selection i think overrides that idea, but i also thought the same idea at first, and we have 5 rescues, so i should know better.
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  That's absurd. My dog likes to drink "outside water" so much to the point where he won't drink out of his bowl. After we come back for a walk he wants to run to the back yard and drink out of his puddle. I don't want him to do that. So I don't let him out. He'll whine a bit and paw at the door but eventually he gives up and drinks out of his bowl. Not dying from thirst or lack of food is an instinct that every living organism has.
margalabargala 2y ago
I don't disagree, especially if they do that every day. There are some times when as humans, we have knowledge that the dog needs to eat now, because they won't have a chance later, for example if going on some trip with the dog where feeding later would be inconvenient. In those cases it's useful to have this trick available.
- SkyPuncher 2y ago
  Or, you just skip a meal. Dog won’t die from being hungry.
  - margalabargala 2y ago
    For a road trip, sure. If you're going on a very long hike, dog will be very unhappy without those calories.
nutrie 2y ago
Dogs aren't exactly wild animals. They've picked up lots of bad habits along the way, due to selective breeding, not having to hunt for food, and whatnot. I used to have a caucasian shepherd, among other dogs we've had in our family, and as she started aging, it had become gradually quite difficult to keep her weight in check. "Forcing" her eat less and more frequently did the trick. She had hip dysplasia, so it was either this or put her to sleep. She got used to it eventually. Some dogs tend to overeat (apparently labradors have a problem here, some boxers too, from top of my head), some don't. Letting them choose may or may not be the right strategy. The owner should be smart and responsible enough to figure it out. But that's a different issue altogether.
- admax88qqq 2y ago
  All your examples were about dogs overeating, which I don't think anyone would disagree dogs can do. But I think it's pretty rare for dogs to under eat and to need to trick them into eating their food.
  - nutrie 2y ago
    It's not uncommon at all. Take toothache, for example. The catch is they can't tell you, and we are terrible at reading the subtle signs.
    - wizzwizz4 2y ago
      Some dogs can communicate such things. Bunny (of What About Bunny) can vaguely, imprecisely, communicate "some kind of pain somewhere" using a button-activated buzzer system. She can sometimes name the approximate location of the pain after a minute or two of thought. (See https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=RN_ZpyS6Fkc&t=34 https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=RN_ZpyS6Fkc&t=34 ) I have no idea how you'd get "I'm in pain" from the associated body language; but, then again, I'm not a dog. In this case there were behavioural cues, but I don't know how I'd tell if there weren't.
      - 082349872349872 2y ago

dboreham 2y ago

Perhaps once it's in the model, it's so hard to re-train that the animal will starve itself in service of the training data?

morkalork 2y ago
I'm pretty sure if you leave a dog alone with a bowl of food long enough, they'll eat it.
jjtheblunt 2y ago
natural selection i think overrides that idea, but i also thought the same idea at first, and we have 5 rescues, so i should know better.
bongodongobob 2y ago
That's absurd. My dog likes to drink "outside water" so much to the point where he won't drink out of his bowl. After we come back for a walk he wants to run to the back yard and drink out of his puddle. I don't want him to do that. So I don't let him out. He'll whine a bit and paw at the door but eventually he gives up and drinks out of his bowl. Not dying from thirst or lack of food is an instinct that every living organism has.

margalabargala 2y ago

I don't disagree, especially if they do that every day. There are some times when as humans, we have knowledge that the dog needs to eat now, because they won't have a chance later, for example if going on some trip with the dog where feeding later would be inconvenient. In those cases it's useful to have this trick available.

SkyPuncher 2y ago
Or, you just skip a meal. Dog won’t die from being hungry.
- margalabargala 2y ago
  For a road trip, sure. If you're going on a very long hike, dog will be very unhappy without those calories.

nutrie 2y ago

Dogs aren't exactly wild animals. They've picked up lots of bad habits along the way, due to selective breeding, not having to hunt for food, and whatnot. I used to have a caucasian shepherd, among other dogs we've had in our family, and as she started aging, it had become gradually quite difficult to keep her weight in check. "Forcing" her eat less and more frequently did the trick. She had hip dysplasia, so it was either this or put her to sleep. She got used to it eventually. Some dogs tend to overeat (apparently labradors have a problem here, some boxers too, from top of my head), some don't. Letting them choose may or may not be the right strategy. The owner should be smart and responsible enough to figure it out. But that's a different issue altogether.

admax88qqq 2y ago
All your examples were about dogs overeating, which I don't think anyone would disagree dogs can do. But I think it's pretty rare for dogs to under eat and to need to trick them into eating their food.
- nutrie 2y ago
  It's not uncommon at all. Take toothache, for example. The catch is they can't tell you, and we are terrible at reading the subtle signs.
  - wizzwizz4 2y ago
    Some dogs can communicate such things. Bunny (of What About Bunny) can vaguely, imprecisely, communicate "some kind of pain somewhere" using a button-activated buzzer system. She can sometimes name the approximate location of the pain after a minute or two of thought. (See https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=RN_ZpyS6Fkc&t=34 https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=RN_ZpyS6Fkc&t=34 ) I have no idea how you'd get "I'm in pain" from the associated body language; but, then again, I'm not a dog. In this case there were behavioural cues, but I don't know how I'd tell if there weren't.
    - 082349872349872 2y ago