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For me DevOps/DevSecOps is reaction movement against toxic turf wars and silos of functions from ambitious people - not some business people scheme to reduce he

by ozim 2y ago

For me DevOps/DevSecOps is reaction movement against toxic turf wars and silos of functions from ambitious people - not some business people scheme to reduce headcount and push more responsibilities. I have received e-mails "hey thats DB don't touch that stuff you are not a DBA" or "hey developers shouldn't do QA" while the premise might be right, lots of things could be done much quicker. I have seen throwing stuff over the wall "hey I am a developer, I don't care about some server stuff", "hey my DB is working fine it must be you application" or months of fixing an issue because no one would take the responsibility across the chain.

elric 2y ago
> For me DevOps/DevSecOps is reaction movement against toxic turf wars and silos of functions from ambitious people Well the DevOps grandfathers (sorry, Patrick & Kris, but you're both grey now) certainly wanted to tear down the walls that had been put up between Devs & Ops. Merging Dev & Ops practices has been a fundamentally good change. Many tasks that used to be dedicated Ops/Infra work are now so automated that a Dev can do them as part of their daily work (e.g. spinning up a test environment or deploying to production). This has been, in a sense, about empowerement. The current "platform engineering"-buzz builds on top of that. > - not some business people scheme to reduce headcount and push more responsibilities I imagine that many business people don't understand tech work well enough to deliberately start such schemes. Reducing toil could probably result in lower headcount (no one likes being part of a silo that does the same manual things over and over again just to deploy to production), but by the same count the automations don't come free. They have to be set up and maintained. Once one piece of drudgery has been automated, something else will rear its ugly head. Automating the heck out of boring shit is not only more rewarding work, it's also a force multiplier for a team. I hope business people see those benefits and aim for them, instead of the aforementioned scheming.
ang_cire 2y ago
Like I said, I have no issue with integrated operations models, but if you try to have one person be a Jack of All Trades, you will end up with them all being 'masters of none'. DevSecOps works very well when you have your coding specialists, operations specialists (including DBAs), and Security specialists all on the same team together, rather than being different silos with different standups and team meetings, etc. But it doesn't work at all well if you just ask the devs to also be Ops and Security, and lay off the rest.

by ozim 2y ago

elric 2y ago

> For me DevOps/DevSecOps is reaction movement against toxic turf wars and silos of functions from ambitious people Well the DevOps grandfathers (sorry, Patrick & Kris, but you're both grey now) certainly wanted to tear down the walls that had been put up between Devs & Ops. Merging Dev & Ops practices has been a fundamentally good change. Many tasks that used to be dedicated Ops/Infra work are now so automated that a Dev can do them as part of their daily work (e.g. spinning up a test environment or deploying to production). This has been, in a sense, about empowerement. The current "platform engineering"-buzz builds on top of that. > - not some business people scheme to reduce headcount and push more responsibilities I imagine that many business people don't understand tech work well enough to deliberately start such schemes. Reducing toil could probably result in lower headcount (no one likes being part of a silo that does the same manual things over and over again just to deploy to production), but by the same count the automations don't come free. They have to be set up and maintained. Once one piece of drudgery has been automated, something else will rear its ugly head. Automating the heck out of boring shit is not only more rewarding work, it's also a force multiplier for a team. I hope business people see those benefits and aim for them, instead of the aforementioned scheming.

ang_cire 2y ago

Like I said, I have no issue with integrated operations models, but if you try to have one person be a Jack of All Trades, you will end up with them all being 'masters of none'. DevSecOps works very well when you have your coding specialists, operations specialists (including DBAs), and Security specialists all on the same team together, rather than being different silos with different standups and team meetings, etc. But it doesn't work at all well if you just ask the devs to also be Ops and Security, and lay off the rest.