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Well, either (1) our free market is not healthy and the ability to form new companies that do better is weak and feeble, or (2) the current companies are doing

Well, either (1) our free market is not healthy and the ability to form new companies that do better is weak and feeble, or (2) the current companies are doing about as well as possibe and it is hard to out compete them. If it's the latter (number 2), then we need to start asking why American companies "doing about as well as possible" are incapable of producing secure and reliable software. Being able to produce secure and reliable software, in general and en masse, seems like a useful ability for a nation. Reminds me of our national ability to produce aircraft; how's the competition in that market working out? And are we getting better or worse at producing aircraft?

WalterBright 2y ago
Companies deliver what customers are willing to pay for. If customers are willing to pay for X, and no companies make X available, you have a great case to make to a venture capitalist. BTW, in every company I've worked for, the employees thought management was stupid and incompetent. In every company I've run, the employees thought I was stupid and incompetent. Sometimes these people leave and start their own company, and soon discover their employees think they're stupid and incompetent. It's just a fact of life in any organization. It's also a fact of life that anyone starting a business learns an awful lot the hard way. Consider Senator George McGovern (D), who said it best: George McGovern's Mea Culpa "In retrospect, I wish I had known more about the hazards and difficulties of such a business, especially during a recession of the kind that hit New England just as I was acquiring the inn's 43-year leasehold. I also wish that during the years I was in public office, I had had this firsthand experience about the difficulties business people face every day. That knowledge would have made me a better U.S. senator and a more understanding presidential contender. Today we are much closer to a general acknowledgment that government must encourage business to expand and grow. Bill Clinton, Paul Tsongas, Bob Kerrey and others have, I believe, changed the debate of our party. We intuitively know that to create job opportunities we need entrepreneurs who will risk their capital against an expected payoff. Too often, however, public policy does not consider whether we are choking off those opportunities." https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203406404578070543545022704 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203406404578070...
- Buttons840 2y ago
  I think those who run companies are often stupid and incompetent, and the workers are probably right most of the time. Just look at the quote again, there's lots of things people don't know when they're starting a company. It would be nice if being smart and competent was the key to success in our society, but you hint at the real key to success in your own comment--getting favor and money from those who already have it. You didn't really engage with the other half of my comment, but I'll say it again, in general our society seems to be crumbling and our ability to get things done efficiently and with competence is waning. Hopefully the right people can get the blessing of venture capitalists to fix this (/s).
  - yibg 2y ago
    The problem isn't that those who run companies are stupid and incompetent (which his probably true). It's that the people lobbing those jabs would also be stupid and incompetent if they were running the companies but thinks they have the answers.
    - Buttons840 2y ago
      Right. I agree that we all have our share of stupidity and incompetence. Some of us are stupid and incompetent on a worker's salary, and some of us are stupid and incompetent on a CEO's salary. See, for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38849580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38849580
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    > I think those who run companies are often stupid and incompetent If you've never run a business, it can sure seem that way. > the real key to success in your own comment--getting favor and money Nobody is going to invest in your startup unless you convince them that you're capable of making money for them.
    - rakejake 2y ago
      Not sure why this thread got consumed by a strawman that "Most people running businesses are stupid/incompetent". That is obviously not true. What I have realized is that most employees never do even a basic analysis of their industry vertical, the key players and drivers etc. Even low-level employees who will never come face-to-face with customers can benefit from learning about their industry. The flip side is that a lot of business people (I exclude people who start their own companies or actively take an interest in a vertical) are also mostly the same. They care about rising from low-level business/product role to a senior role, potentially C-suite role, and couldn't care less about how they make this happen. Many times, it is hard to measure a business person's impact (positive or negative) - think about Boeing. All their pains today were seeded more than 20 years ago with a series of bad moves but the then CEO walked off into the sunset with a pile of cash and a great reputation. OTOH, there was a great article yesterday on HN from Monica Harrington, one of the founders of Valve whose business decisions were crucial to Valve's initial success, but had to sell her stake in the company early on. I think business, despite its outsize role in the success/failure of a company, follows the same power law of talent that most other professions carry. Most people are average, some really good, some real greedy etc.
yibg 2y ago
Maybe because "secure and reliable software" isn't what makes successful companies. Just like how people complain about tight airplane seats and getting nickeled and dimmed but continuously pick airlines that have cramped seats but are cheaper over airlines with more generous space but cost more.

WalterBright 2y ago

Companies deliver what customers are willing to pay for. If customers are willing to pay for X, and no companies make X available, you have a great case to make to a venture capitalist. BTW, in every company I've worked for, the employees thought management was stupid and incompetent. In every company I've run, the employees thought I was stupid and incompetent. Sometimes these people leave and start their own company, and soon discover their employees think they're stupid and incompetent. It's just a fact of life in any organization. It's also a fact of life that anyone starting a business learns an awful lot the hard way. Consider Senator George McGovern (D), who said it best: George McGovern's Mea Culpa "In retrospect, I wish I had known more about the hazards and difficulties of such a business, especially during a recession of the kind that hit New England just as I was acquiring the inn's 43-year leasehold. I also wish that during the years I was in public office, I had had this firsthand experience about the difficulties business people face every day. That knowledge would have made me a better U.S. senator and a more understanding presidential contender. Today we are much closer to a general acknowledgment that government must encourage business to expand and grow. Bill Clinton, Paul Tsongas, Bob Kerrey and others have, I believe, changed the debate of our party. We intuitively know that to create job opportunities we need entrepreneurs who will risk their capital against an expected payoff. Too often, however, public policy does not consider whether we are choking off those opportunities." https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203406404578070543545022704 https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203406404578070...

Buttons840 2y ago
I think those who run companies are often stupid and incompetent, and the workers are probably right most of the time. Just look at the quote again, there's lots of things people don't know when they're starting a company. It would be nice if being smart and competent was the key to success in our society, but you hint at the real key to success in your own comment--getting favor and money from those who already have it. You didn't really engage with the other half of my comment, but I'll say it again, in general our society seems to be crumbling and our ability to get things done efficiently and with competence is waning. Hopefully the right people can get the blessing of venture capitalists to fix this (/s).
- yibg 2y ago
  The problem isn't that those who run companies are stupid and incompetent (which his probably true). It's that the people lobbing those jabs would also be stupid and incompetent if they were running the companies but thinks they have the answers.
  - Buttons840 2y ago
    Right. I agree that we all have our share of stupidity and incompetence. Some of us are stupid and incompetent on a worker's salary, and some of us are stupid and incompetent on a CEO's salary. See, for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38849580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38849580
- WalterBright 2y ago
  > I think those who run companies are often stupid and incompetent If you've never run a business, it can sure seem that way. > the real key to success in your own comment--getting favor and money Nobody is going to invest in your startup unless you convince them that you're capable of making money for them.
  - rakejake 2y ago
    Not sure why this thread got consumed by a strawman that "Most people running businesses are stupid/incompetent". That is obviously not true. What I have realized is that most employees never do even a basic analysis of their industry vertical, the key players and drivers etc. Even low-level employees who will never come face-to-face with customers can benefit from learning about their industry. The flip side is that a lot of business people (I exclude people who start their own companies or actively take an interest in a vertical) are also mostly the same. They care about rising from low-level business/product role to a senior role, potentially C-suite role, and couldn't care less about how they make this happen. Many times, it is hard to measure a business person's impact (positive or negative) - think about Boeing. All their pains today were seeded more than 20 years ago with a series of bad moves but the then CEO walked off into the sunset with a pile of cash and a great reputation. OTOH, there was a great article yesterday on HN from Monica Harrington, one of the founders of Valve whose business decisions were crucial to Valve's initial success, but had to sell her stake in the company early on. I think business, despite its outsize role in the success/failure of a company, follows the same power law of talent that most other professions carry. Most people are average, some really good, some real greedy etc.

yibg 2y ago

Maybe because "secure and reliable software" isn't what makes successful companies. Just like how people complain about tight airplane seats and getting nickeled and dimmed but continuously pick airlines that have cramped seats but are cheaper over airlines with more generous space but cost more.