5 ms·

It's because it's often a suboptimal career move from an individual perspective. By branding yourself as a "FinTech Developer" or whatever instead of just a "De

by extr 2y ago

It's because it's often a suboptimal career move from an individual perspective. By branding yourself as a "FinTech Developer" or whatever instead of just a "Developer" you're narrowing your possible job options for questionable benefit in terms of TC and skills growth. This isn't always the case and of course if you spend 20 years in one domain maybe you can brand yourself as an expert there and pull high $/hr consulting rates for fixing people's problems. Maybe. More likely IMO you end up stagnating. I went through this myself early in my career. I did ML at insurance companies and got branded as an insurance ML guy. Insurance companies don't pay that well and there are a limited number of them. After I got out of that lane and got some name-brand tech experience under my belt, job hunting was much easier and my options opened up. I make a lot more money. And I can always go back if I really want to.

trashtester 2y ago
> I did ML at insurance companies and got branded as an insurance ML guy. If you're an "ML insurance guy" outside of the US, it may be quite lucrative compared to other developers. It's really only in the US (and maybe China) that pure developers are demanding $200k+ salaries. In most places in Europe, even $100k is considered a high salary, and if you can provide value directly to the business, it will add a lot to your potential compensation. And in particular, if your skills are more about the business than the tech/math of your domain, you probably want to leverage that, rather than trying to compete with 25-year-olds with a strong STEM background, but poor real-life experience.
- matrix2003 2y ago
  > In most places in Europe, even $100k is considered a high salary I think it's worth adding here that US developers can have a much higher burden for things like health insurance. My child broke his arm this year, and we hit our very high deductible. I would like to see numbers factoring in things like public transportation, health insurance, etc., because I personally feel like EU vs US developers are a lot closer in quality of life after all the deductions.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    I'm skeptical. I live in a location that wouldn't have public transportation even in Europe. And my healthcare, while not "free," was never expensive outside of fairly small co-pays and a monthly deduction that wasn't cheap but was in the hundreds per month range. Of course, there are high deductible policies but that's a financial choice.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - nextos 2y ago
    I would also like to see those numbers. IMHO, the biggest difference comes from housing cost. For example, from my own back-of-the-envelope calculations, a £100k Oxbridge job affords a better lifestyle than a $180k NY job mostly because of housing. However, some US areas have competitively priced housing and jobs that would make the balance tilt in favor of America. In EU, affordable spots with lots of desirable local jobs are becoming increasingly rare. Perhaps Vienna, Wrocław and a few other places in Central/Eastern EU.
    - pas 2y ago
      what are typical Oxbridge jobs? Are they really in Oxford and Cambridge? if yes, then ... NYC vs not-London UK seems like almost incomparable.
      - nextos 2y ago
        Pharma and bio/tech startups in the area, mostly in Oxford and Cambridge Science Parks. So yes, local. The pharma & biotech sector is blooming in the Golden Triangle, which also includes London.
    - _dain_ 2y ago
      I don't know how NY is in comparison, but housing in Cambridge is almost as expensive as in London. A detached 3br starts at £700k. NIMBYs keep killing any expansion of supply.
- mlinhares 2y ago
  > rather than trying to compete with 25-year-olds with a strong STEM background, but poor real-life experience. I have never seen this happen. All the new grads I've ever worked with (from Ivy league schools as well) are pretty much incapable of doing anything without a lot of handholding, they lack so much of everything, experience, context, business knowledge, political awareness, technical knowledge (I still can't believe "designing data intensive applications" isn't a required read in college for people that want big tech jobs) and even the STEM stuff (if they're so good why do i have to explain why we don't use averages?). Which is fine, they are new to the market, so they need to be educated. Other than CRUD apps, i doubt these people can do anything complex without supervision, we're not even in the same league to compete with each other.
WalterBright 2y ago
> got branded as an insurance ML guy I got branded as a compiler guy. My salary is $0.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  I’ve never gotten avaricious small town business types to believe that the cheap thing to do if the proprietary language you spent a lot to buy is EOL is hire some interns from your local Uni who took a compilers class to write an implementation or translator for $0.00 and some good experiences although… it’s true.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    Taking a college level compiler class will get you a toy compiler.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - PaulHoule 2y ago
      Not the best but something that seems impossible to the small town businessman.

by extr 2y ago

trashtester 2y ago

> I did ML at insurance companies and got branded as an insurance ML guy. If you're an "ML insurance guy" outside of the US, it may be quite lucrative compared to other developers. It's really only in the US (and maybe China) that pure developers are demanding $200k+ salaries. In most places in Europe, even $100k is considered a high salary, and if you can provide value directly to the business, it will add a lot to your potential compensation. And in particular, if your skills are more about the business than the tech/math of your domain, you probably want to leverage that, rather than trying to compete with 25-year-olds with a strong STEM background, but poor real-life experience.

matrix2003 2y ago
> In most places in Europe, even $100k is considered a high salary I think it's worth adding here that US developers can have a much higher burden for things like health insurance. My child broke his arm this year, and we hit our very high deductible. I would like to see numbers factoring in things like public transportation, health insurance, etc., because I personally feel like EU vs US developers are a lot closer in quality of life after all the deductions.
- ghaff 2y ago
  I'm skeptical. I live in a location that wouldn't have public transportation even in Europe. And my healthcare, while not "free," was never expensive outside of fairly small co-pays and a monthly deduction that wasn't cheap but was in the hundreds per month range. Of course, there are high deductible policies but that's a financial choice.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- nextos 2y ago
  I would also like to see those numbers. IMHO, the biggest difference comes from housing cost. For example, from my own back-of-the-envelope calculations, a £100k Oxbridge job affords a better lifestyle than a $180k NY job mostly because of housing. However, some US areas have competitively priced housing and jobs that would make the balance tilt in favor of America. In EU, affordable spots with lots of desirable local jobs are becoming increasingly rare. Perhaps Vienna, Wrocław and a few other places in Central/Eastern EU.
  - pas 2y ago
    what are typical Oxbridge jobs? Are they really in Oxford and Cambridge? if yes, then ... NYC vs not-London UK seems like almost incomparable.
    - nextos 2y ago
      Pharma and bio/tech startups in the area, mostly in Oxford and Cambridge Science Parks. So yes, local. The pharma & biotech sector is blooming in the Golden Triangle, which also includes London.
  - _dain_ 2y ago
    I don't know how NY is in comparison, but housing in Cambridge is almost as expensive as in London. A detached 3br starts at £700k. NIMBYs keep killing any expansion of supply.
mlinhares 2y ago
> rather than trying to compete with 25-year-olds with a strong STEM background, but poor real-life experience. I have never seen this happen. All the new grads I've ever worked with (from Ivy league schools as well) are pretty much incapable of doing anything without a lot of handholding, they lack so much of everything, experience, context, business knowledge, political awareness, technical knowledge (I still can't believe "designing data intensive applications" isn't a required read in college for people that want big tech jobs) and even the STEM stuff (if they're so good why do i have to explain why we don't use averages?). Which is fine, they are new to the market, so they need to be educated. Other than CRUD apps, i doubt these people can do anything complex without supervision, we're not even in the same league to compete with each other.

WalterBright 2y ago

> got branded as an insurance ML guy I got branded as a compiler guy. My salary is $0.

PaulHoule 2y ago
I’ve never gotten avaricious small town business types to believe that the cheap thing to do if the proprietary language you spent a lot to buy is EOL is hire some interns from your local Uni who took a compilers class to write an implementation or translator for $0.00 and some good experiences although… it’s true.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  Taking a college level compiler class will get you a toy compiler.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    Not the best but something that seems impossible to the small town businessman.