8 ms·

It makes some degree of sense. You might assume a bunch of refugees hitting your product would be good, but in my experience, people who transition voluntarily/

It makes some degree of sense. You might assume a bunch of refugees hitting your product would be good, but in my experience, people who transition voluntarily/gradually are more willing to adopt a new paradigm. However, people who are moving under duress (because their previous product suddenly vanished/went out-of-support/changed licensing) are generally less flexible. They haven't had time to adjust, and just want an apples-to-apples equivalent for the thing they are used to as quickly as possible, because they're trying to get back to work. Presumably they didn't want Godot to suddenly get an influx of help tickets or message forum posts that were all rephrasings of "This interface doesn't have a button exactly where I expect it from Unity. Godot sucks."

foresto 2y ago
I have seen this same pattern in long-time Windows users approaching Linux, becoming frustrated, and then posting online about how bad [they think] it is.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
  I have used Linux daily for years and can provide many objective things wrong with it. No rose-tinted-Windows glasses required.
  - nurettin 2y ago
    Windows glasses are usually grayed out for some unknown reason, and there is no apparent way to clean them up. Sometimes taking them off and then putting them back on may suddenly clear the gray areas.
    - passwordoops 2y ago
      I'm using this analogy with every instrument we have at the lab. Thank you
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - asimovfan 2y ago
    can you please talk about what linux refuses to do that you are trying to make it do? or in general what is wrong with it, i am sincerely curious
    - lupusreal 2y ago
      It doesn't have the button exactly where Windows has it.
      - keyringlight 2y ago
        I'd say the core difference for those migrating is that they evolved with different 'evolutionary pressures'. Broadly speaking there's equivalent functionality for a lot of things, but windows has a lot of GUI while linux has a lot of config files and terminal commands to accomplish things. Where I think the friction is the distance between new migrants coming to linux with glowing advertisements of it mostly being a drop-in replacement for windows but the GUI not offering everything, and crucially not hinting where to go to find things, so people head off to do web searches and play the lottery of if they get good/recent information appropriate to the distro and version they chose. Linux seems to be polarized between great for simple use cases (browser, gaming within the steam walled garden, etc) and those willing/able to dive into the terminal, but between those can be a wide gulf which is hard to cross.
    - jsheard 2y ago
      For one the Nvidia drivers are still a pain, and Nvidia has 83% discrete GPU marketshare per the Steam survey, so the majority of Windows users venturing into Linux are immediately going to run into whatever the Nvidia issue of the week happens to be. Those who are already sold on Linux know to just get an AMD card in the first place, but that requires the benefit of foresight.
      - trashburger 2y ago
        Blame Nvidia for that one. They have actively refused to work with the community for the longest time.
  - desumeku 2y ago
    For every "objective" quality you bring up, I can call it subjective.
  - Andrex 2y ago
    Having used all three, macOS is the one I can't wrap my brain completely around for some reason. Maybe I got too used to Windows, but I picked up Gnome 3 quicker than I expected.
    - margalabargala 2y ago
      I once started a job and was handed a macbook pro, after years of using nothing but Linux. It was one of the most frustrating experiences of my life, I felt like I had to constantly work around the OS to get things done that would be trivial on linux. I lasted a month before making the macbook dual-boot ubuntu. Eventually they just bought me a linux laptop.
    - FpUser 2y ago
      Same here. Time spent with MacBook was the worst out of 3 for me. Luckily the project that depended on Mac was short and I never had to go back. Happy like a clam with Windows and Linux. Both have some ugly sides but neither stand in my way when need to do something.
    - airtonix 2y ago
      [dead]
    - bufferoverflow 2y ago
      Most flavors of Linux I've tried didn't have text selection for Shift+arrow or Ctrl+Shift+arrow or Shift+Home or Shift+End keys working by default. Maybe it's been fixed since, but I remember that it annoyed me every time I installed fresh Linux. It's many small things like that. When I had to switch to Mac for work, it had no silly problems like that.
  - tourmalinetaco 2y ago
    Have you considered modifying it to suit your needs?
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  I find this hilarious because HN in general has the same complaints of Windows not being exactly like Linux. Even Windows 11 not being exactly like Windows 10. Humans truly are all the same.
- ThatMedicIsASpy 2y ago
  And then they redesign everything every time. W8, W10, W11 - W11 is the biggest offender with changing the context menu. The only positive thing I can say about Windows these days is it does work really really really well with touchscreen input.
  - SR2Z 2y ago
    > The only positive thing I can say about Windows these days is it does work really really really well with touchscreen input. This was always the point, wasn't it? MS wanted Windows to compete more closely with the iPad with the Surface - it just turned out that only parts of what they tried were good (the Metro style turned into Fluent). I've been using Windows since 98 and I frankly feel like the current UX is at a high point. It's responsive, thoughtfully laid-out, and supports modern stuff like omnisearch (I have configured my Start Menu to NOT give me Bing results) and multiple desktops. The enshittification is a real shame because I've been really enjoying the changes.
  - inhumantsar 2y ago
    imho as a surface pro user who doesn't use the keyboard cover, that's a significant overstatement. it's much, much better than it used to be, but there are so many inconsistencies and annoyances that I would be hard pressed to recommend it. selecting text is painful. the on-screen keyboard is decent but swipe input won't register half the time and it routinely fails to open when it should or stay closed when it shouldn't. with a pen, it's extremely picky with tap inputs. if the pen tip moves even a mm after touching, it's registered as a mouse drag, and unlike with mice there's no way to adjust the sensitivity or register a deadzone. handwriting to text is ok, but its constantly shifting interface regularly leads to errors and gestures like striking out or replacing a letter rarely works on the first (or even third) try. with both pen and osk, text prediction / spell correct is utterly moronic. often reaching for unusual words or proper names instead of a more common word. I will give them credit for getting to this point and I'm sure many of the inconsistencies come from having to support a wide variety of apps and backwards compatibility. regardless tho, it will be a long while yet before it's usable as a touchscreen-primary OS, let alone "really good".
- pjmlp 2y ago
  I use Linux since 1995's Summer, starting with Slackware 2.0, kernel 1.0.9, the first with native ELF support. Since then I subscribed to Linux Journal until it was no more. Got most of Walnut Creek distributions, lost count of how many I have tried in the last 30 years. My UNIX experience started with Xenix in 1993, and I have used most well known UNIX variants. There are plenty of reasons to still complain about Linux in 2024, especially in regards to laptops.
ChoHag 2y ago
[dead]
neonsunset 2y ago
You may be right, but chances are it would have pushed Godot in the right direction of avoiding Unity mistakes namely using custom scripting language which Unity ultimately gave up on. In this case, however, the forced API decisions that are contrary to performant interop patterns of C# are even more painful, and I keep getting casual reports that there is something wrong with the way Godot embeds .NET that leads to its consistently worse performance vs when being used standalone. I don't know the details and if anyone can shed more light on this, I'd love to dig into that. In any case, even if we skip the subject of performance, GDScript is not a particularly good language comparatively speaking.
- gdscripter 2y ago
  I can tell you if Godot abandoned GDScript and went all in on C# then I would stop using Godot. I do not think C# is even remotely enjoyable as a language and GDScript works really well.
  - jayd16 2y ago
    Why? What are the features in GDScript that don't exist in C#? Personally I find C# to be a fantastic language with both high (eg. pattern matching, dynamic) and low level (eg. value types, Span<T>) features as well as amazing tooling (eg. Rosylyn Analyzers) that come in very handy.
    - gdscripter 2y ago
      My dislike of C# is nothing but syntax. Godot writes their examples in both C# and GDScript and you can see that GDScript is a much more concise language with almost no boilerplate compared to C#.
    - danbolt 2y ago
      I’ve used both, and personally, I find a lot of features in C# not necessarily contributing to standing up the gameplay I’m looking for. It has more functionality like you mention, but GDScript integrates with the engine nicely and doesn’t have GC pauses to worry about. If performance is an issue, or I want to do something that GDScript doesn’t lend well too, I’d probably just jump to C++.

foresto 2y ago

I have seen this same pattern in long-time Windows users approaching Linux, becoming frustrated, and then posting online about how bad [they think] it is.

0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
I have used Linux daily for years and can provide many objective things wrong with it. No rose-tinted-Windows glasses required.
- nurettin 2y ago
  Windows glasses are usually grayed out for some unknown reason, and there is no apparent way to clean them up. Sometimes taking them off and then putting them back on may suddenly clear the gray areas.
  - passwordoops 2y ago
    I'm using this analogy with every instrument we have at the lab. Thank you
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- asimovfan 2y ago
  can you please talk about what linux refuses to do that you are trying to make it do? or in general what is wrong with it, i am sincerely curious
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    It doesn't have the button exactly where Windows has it.
    - keyringlight 2y ago
      I'd say the core difference for those migrating is that they evolved with different 'evolutionary pressures'. Broadly speaking there's equivalent functionality for a lot of things, but windows has a lot of GUI while linux has a lot of config files and terminal commands to accomplish things. Where I think the friction is the distance between new migrants coming to linux with glowing advertisements of it mostly being a drop-in replacement for windows but the GUI not offering everything, and crucially not hinting where to go to find things, so people head off to do web searches and play the lottery of if they get good/recent information appropriate to the distro and version they chose. Linux seems to be polarized between great for simple use cases (browser, gaming within the steam walled garden, etc) and those willing/able to dive into the terminal, but between those can be a wide gulf which is hard to cross.
  - jsheard 2y ago
    For one the Nvidia drivers are still a pain, and Nvidia has 83% discrete GPU marketshare per the Steam survey, so the majority of Windows users venturing into Linux are immediately going to run into whatever the Nvidia issue of the week happens to be. Those who are already sold on Linux know to just get an AMD card in the first place, but that requires the benefit of foresight.
    - trashburger 2y ago
      Blame Nvidia for that one. They have actively refused to work with the community for the longest time.
- desumeku 2y ago
  For every "objective" quality you bring up, I can call it subjective.
- Andrex 2y ago
  Having used all three, macOS is the one I can't wrap my brain completely around for some reason. Maybe I got too used to Windows, but I picked up Gnome 3 quicker than I expected.
  - margalabargala 2y ago
    I once started a job and was handed a macbook pro, after years of using nothing but Linux. It was one of the most frustrating experiences of my life, I felt like I had to constantly work around the OS to get things done that would be trivial on linux. I lasted a month before making the macbook dual-boot ubuntu. Eventually they just bought me a linux laptop.
  - FpUser 2y ago
    Same here. Time spent with MacBook was the worst out of 3 for me. Luckily the project that depended on Mac was short and I never had to go back. Happy like a clam with Windows and Linux. Both have some ugly sides but neither stand in my way when need to do something.
  - airtonix 2y ago
    [dead]
  - bufferoverflow 2y ago
    Most flavors of Linux I've tried didn't have text selection for Shift+arrow or Ctrl+Shift+arrow or Shift+Home or Shift+End keys working by default. Maybe it's been fixed since, but I remember that it annoyed me every time I installed fresh Linux. It's many small things like that. When I had to switch to Mac for work, it had no silly problems like that.
- tourmalinetaco 2y ago
  Have you considered modifying it to suit your needs?
bongodongobob 2y ago
I find this hilarious because HN in general has the same complaints of Windows not being exactly like Linux. Even Windows 11 not being exactly like Windows 10. Humans truly are all the same.
ThatMedicIsASpy 2y ago
And then they redesign everything every time. W8, W10, W11 - W11 is the biggest offender with changing the context menu. The only positive thing I can say about Windows these days is it does work really really really well with touchscreen input.
- SR2Z 2y ago
  > The only positive thing I can say about Windows these days is it does work really really really well with touchscreen input. This was always the point, wasn't it? MS wanted Windows to compete more closely with the iPad with the Surface - it just turned out that only parts of what they tried were good (the Metro style turned into Fluent). I've been using Windows since 98 and I frankly feel like the current UX is at a high point. It's responsive, thoughtfully laid-out, and supports modern stuff like omnisearch (I have configured my Start Menu to NOT give me Bing results) and multiple desktops. The enshittification is a real shame because I've been really enjoying the changes.
- inhumantsar 2y ago
  imho as a surface pro user who doesn't use the keyboard cover, that's a significant overstatement. it's much, much better than it used to be, but there are so many inconsistencies and annoyances that I would be hard pressed to recommend it. selecting text is painful. the on-screen keyboard is decent but swipe input won't register half the time and it routinely fails to open when it should or stay closed when it shouldn't. with a pen, it's extremely picky with tap inputs. if the pen tip moves even a mm after touching, it's registered as a mouse drag, and unlike with mice there's no way to adjust the sensitivity or register a deadzone. handwriting to text is ok, but its constantly shifting interface regularly leads to errors and gestures like striking out or replacing a letter rarely works on the first (or even third) try. with both pen and osk, text prediction / spell correct is utterly moronic. often reaching for unusual words or proper names instead of a more common word. I will give them credit for getting to this point and I'm sure many of the inconsistencies come from having to support a wide variety of apps and backwards compatibility. regardless tho, it will be a long while yet before it's usable as a touchscreen-primary OS, let alone "really good".
pjmlp 2y ago
I use Linux since 1995's Summer, starting with Slackware 2.0, kernel 1.0.9, the first with native ELF support. Since then I subscribed to Linux Journal until it was no more. Got most of Walnut Creek distributions, lost count of how many I have tried in the last 30 years. My UNIX experience started with Xenix in 1993, and I have used most well known UNIX variants. There are plenty of reasons to still complain about Linux in 2024, especially in regards to laptops.

ChoHag 2y ago

[dead]

neonsunset 2y ago

You may be right, but chances are it would have pushed Godot in the right direction of avoiding Unity mistakes namely using custom scripting language which Unity ultimately gave up on. In this case, however, the forced API decisions that are contrary to performant interop patterns of C# are even more painful, and I keep getting casual reports that there is something wrong with the way Godot embeds .NET that leads to its consistently worse performance vs when being used standalone. I don't know the details and if anyone can shed more light on this, I'd love to dig into that. In any case, even if we skip the subject of performance, GDScript is not a particularly good language comparatively speaking.

gdscripter 2y ago
I can tell you if Godot abandoned GDScript and went all in on C# then I would stop using Godot. I do not think C# is even remotely enjoyable as a language and GDScript works really well.
- jayd16 2y ago
  Why? What are the features in GDScript that don't exist in C#? Personally I find C# to be a fantastic language with both high (eg. pattern matching, dynamic) and low level (eg. value types, Span<T>) features as well as amazing tooling (eg. Rosylyn Analyzers) that come in very handy.
  - gdscripter 2y ago
    My dislike of C# is nothing but syntax. Godot writes their examples in both C# and GDScript and you can see that GDScript is a much more concise language with almost no boilerplate compared to C#.
  - danbolt 2y ago
    I’ve used both, and personally, I find a lot of features in C# not necessarily contributing to standing up the gameplay I’m looking for. It has more functionality like you mention, but GDScript integrates with the engine nicely and doesn’t have GC pauses to worry about. If performance is an issue, or I want to do something that GDScript doesn’t lend well too, I’d probably just jump to C++.