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> Success should be measured in usage/reach, not $ What? No. If a business isn't able to sustain itself with its revenue, it has failed and will need to shut
by smt88 2y ago
> Success should be measured in usage/reach, not $
What? No.
If a business isn't able to sustain itself with its revenue, it has failed and will need to shut down. That's the definition of failure.
Lots of things can be "successful" by your metric by using unsustainable pricing.
- thinkr42 2y agoThis entirely. You can't eat using "good feelings" / "impact" alone.
- madamelic 2y agoAlso the whole non-profit angle is immature in my opinion. Non-profits denote nothing about their financial good-standing or moral good-standing. You can be an amoral non-profit, a moral for-profit or vice-versa. Your profit structure has nothing to do with the morals of the people inside of it. Additionally, there a lot of non-profit executives that are profiting very healthily off of their work.
- twojacobtwo 2y agoNon-profit simply tells people what the incentives/motivations are or are not. The average for-profit company can't be trusted/expected to do what's best for anyone outside the profit structure (e.g. users or the public at large). Of course you can have exceptions in either direction, but on average for-profit orgs will likely be willing to fuck over anyone else to increase profits - intentionally or not - because profit growth is literally their purpose. 'Non-profit' advertises that you don't have to worry about that specific, powerful motivation of the org contending with your best interests.
- mlyle 2y agoUnfortunately, in practice, this isn't really true. It's a less powerful motivation, in that there are not shareholders who will benefit from growth. But in practice, executives and managers end up making more, which provides an incentive for growth.
- shafyy 2y agoCompletely agree. In the end, it's all about the motivation and ethics of the owners. For an extereme example: OpenAI is "non-profit".
- mlyle 2y agoNot everything beneficial to the world has a viable business model. In the best case, you get to change the world and make a bunch of money. Sometimes, you just have a viable business selling sugar water. And other times, you're doing something really good that's just not going to get you paid. There's nothing wrong with the last thing, other than its potential lack of sustainability. I'm now a teacher; I could easily make 10x my comp elsewhere; possibly 100x. Measured on your scale, the only value is what I'm getting paid. But it turns out that those good feelings are worth something to me.
- kevmo314 2y agoI don't think anyone is arguing that the good feelings aren't worth anything but rather that we are all humans with mouths to feed at the end of the day. If your comp went down 90% or even started costing you substantial money, at some point you too would probably reconsider being a teacher.
- ihid 2y ago> And other times, you're doing something really good that's just not going to get you paid. This. I feel that this has been missed in the thread a little.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- TheNewsIsHere 2y agoYeah, you can’t deposit vibes at the bank, and employees can’t pay their mortgages with them either. A sustainable business demands some kind of ongoing income.
- KolmogorovComp 2y agoFrom TFA, they’re not a business, they’re non-profit.
- smt88 2y agoNonprofits are businesses.
- jessriedel 2y agoThey aren't. Look it up in the dictionary. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/business https://www.dictionary.com/browse/business Someone's profession (their "business") can certainly be working at a nonprofit, but that's because they are getting paid. The nonprofit organization itself is not a business. You might be looking for the word "corporation", which can include nonprofits.
- smt88 2y agoI don't need to look it up because I've started two nonprofits and more than a dozen corporations. Nonprofits in the US literally are corporations, just with a different tax status. They need revenue that exceeds their costs. Many of them sell things. They can even turn a profit. Ikea operates as a nonprofit in the US.
- jessriedel 2y agoI know nonprofits are corporations. That’s what I already said above. You claimed they were businesses, which is incorrect and which I disputed. Requiring more revenue than costs does not a business make. You starting a nonprofit does not give you special insight into the meaning of words. I am the treasurer on the board of a nonprofit. I have had to go through the books quarterly, confirm we’ve got enough cash for a year of runway, etc. The understanding of what nonprofits do is not the issue. This is a boring dispute over words (semantics). Remember, you initiated this dispute over words when you made an argument “by definition” and you criticized KolmogorovCamp’s correct use of the distinction between nonprofits and businesses.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoIt may not be successful long-term with this model, but it's been very successful so far.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- belter 2y agoYou do know Twitter never made a profit, right? And Lyft is 14 years old and is not profitable...And GitLab does not make money...And Zillow is not profitable...And Snap is not profitable.
- chrisandchris 2y agoAnd that does make it the correct approach somehow? How will this business continue to exist in 1, 2, 5 years? Someone has to pay (paid) for this business a.k.a. is actively loosing money.