5 ms·

So its not going to stop. Typical C-suite who holds real power has absolutely 0 clue about IT complexity, we are overpriced janitors to them. Their fault, their

by jajko 2y ago

So its not going to stop. Typical C-suite who holds real power has absolutely 0 clue about IT complexity, we are overpriced janitors to them. Their fault, their blame, but they are probably long gone when these mistakes manifest fully. In my banking corp, in past 13 years I've seen massive rise of complexity, coupled with absolutely madly done bureaucracy increase. I still could do all stuff that is required but - I dont have access. I cant have access. Simple task became 10 steps negotiating with obscure Pune team that I need to chase 10x and escalate till they actually recognize there is some work for them. Processes became beyond ridiculous, you start something and it could take 2 days or 3 months, who knows. Every single app will break pretty quickly if not constantly maintained - be it some new network stuff, unchecked unix update, or any other of trillion things that can and will go wrong. This means - paper pushers and folks at best average at their primary job (still IT or related) got very entretched in processes and won, and business gets served subpar IT, projects over time and thus budget, perpetuating the image of shitty tolerated evil IT. I stopped caring, work to live is more than enough for me, that 'live' part is where my focus is and life achievements are.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
godelski 2y ago
- my laundry app (that I must use) takes minutes to load, doesn't cache my last used laundry room, and the list of rooms isn't even fucking sorted (literally: room 3, room 7, room 1, room 2, ...) - my AC's app takes 45 s to load even if I just used it, because it needs to connect. Worse, I'll bring the temp down in my house and in the evening raise it, but it'll come on even when 5F below my target value, staying on for 15+ minutes leaving us freezing (5F according to __it's thermometer__!) - my TV controls are slow. Enough that I buffer inputs and wait 2-3 seconds for the commands to play. That pressing the exit button in the same menu (I turn down brightness at night because auto settings don't work, so it's the exact same behavior), idk if I'm exciting to my input, exiting the menu, or just exiting the sub menu. It's inconsistent! There's so much that I can go on and on and I'm sure you can too. I think one of the worst parts about being a programmer is that I'm pretty sure I know how to solve many of these issues, and in fact sometimes I'll spend days to tear apart the system to actually fix it. Of course to only be undone by updates that are forced (app or whatever won't connect because why is everything done server side ( ┛ ◉ Д ◉ ) ┛ 彡 ┻ ━ ┻ ). Even worse, I'll make PRs on open projects (or open issues another way and submit solutions) that having been working for months and they just go stale while I see other users reporting the same problems and devs working on other things in the same project (I'll even see them deny the behavior or just respond "works for me" closes issue before opener can respond) I don't know how to stop caring because these things directly affect me and are slowing me down. I mean how fucking hard is it to use sort? It's not even one line! What the fuck is wrong with us?
- mistrial9 2y ago
  ... it is not "us" .. there is a collection of roles that each interact to produce products to market or releases. Add some game-theory to the thinking on that?
  - godelski 2y ago
    "Us" can mean different things depending on the context. The context here is "programmers" not "shitty programmers" (really we can be inclusive with engineers and any makers). Considering that it seems you appear to understand the context I'm a bit confused at the comment. You don't have to inject yourself if you're not in the referred to group (i.e. maybe I'm not talking about you. I can't know because I don't even know you) I need to stress so much -- especially because how people think about AI and intelligence (my field of research[0]) -- that language is not precise. Language is not thoughts. Sure, many think "out loud" and most people have inner speech, but language (even inner) is compressed. You use language to convey much more complex and abstract concepts in your head to someone who is hopefully trying to make their decompression adapt to uncover the other person's intended meaning. This isn't a Chinese room where you just look in the dictionary (which also shows multiple definitions for anything). I know it's harder with text and disconnected cultures integration, but we must not confuse this and I think it's ignored far too often. Ignoring it seems to just escalate that problems. > Add some game-theory to the thinking on that? And please don't be dismissive by hand waving. I'm sure you understand game theory. Which would mean you understand what a complex problem this is to actually model (to a degree I doubt anyone could to a good degree of accuracy). That you understand perturbation theory and chaos theory and how they are critical to modeling such a process meaning you only get probability distribution as results. [0] I add this context because it decreases the amount of people that feel the need to nerdsplain things to me that they don't research.
- linotype 2y ago
  I use an Apple TV. It’s more expensive than Google and Amazon’s offerings, but fast as hell and gets better with time.
  - 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
GeoAtreides 2y ago
> 10 steps negotiating with obscure Pune team that I need to chase 10x why are you doing the chasing? unless you're the project manager, comment "blocked by obscure pune team" on the ticket and move on
- malfist 2y ago
  In my experience, PMs rarely do the chasing down for you. Most of them ask why you're still blocked and if you've done anything about it. Even if they do do something to chase them down, you're still on the hook for the deadlines.
  - GeoAtreides 2y ago
    so you're saying PMs are not doing their job? and then you have to do the actual project managing? not ideal for you, very cushy job for them.
    - intelVISA 2y ago
      It's a popular grifter role for a reason.
      - malfist 2y ago
        The PM I work with most of the time introduced himself as "the next Elon Musk", so your assessment fits
- dragon-hn 2y ago
  This is an unfortunate attitude. The current state of things in our industry is a reflection of this “not my job” way of doing things.
  - GeoAtreides 2y ago
    We can call it job specialisation. I don't do project managing, I do coding. Not my business to coordinate everyone, my job is to write code.

by jajko 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

godelski 2y ago

- my laundry app (that I must use) takes minutes to load, doesn't cache my last used laundry room, and the list of rooms isn't even fucking sorted (literally: room 3, room 7, room 1, room 2, ...) - my AC's app takes 45 s to load even if I just used it, because it needs to connect. Worse, I'll bring the temp down in my house and in the evening raise it, but it'll come on even when 5F below my target value, staying on for 15+ minutes leaving us freezing (5F according to __it's thermometer__!) - my TV controls are slow. Enough that I buffer inputs and wait 2-3 seconds for the commands to play. That pressing the exit button in the same menu (I turn down brightness at night because auto settings don't work, so it's the exact same behavior), idk if I'm exciting to my input, exiting the menu, or just exiting the sub menu. It's inconsistent! There's so much that I can go on and on and I'm sure you can too. I think one of the worst parts about being a programmer is that I'm pretty sure I know how to solve many of these issues, and in fact sometimes I'll spend days to tear apart the system to actually fix it. Of course to only be undone by updates that are forced (app or whatever won't connect because why is everything done server side ( ┛ ◉ Д ◉ ) ┛ 彡 ┻ ━ ┻ ). Even worse, I'll make PRs on open projects (or open issues another way and submit solutions) that having been working for months and they just go stale while I see other users reporting the same problems and devs working on other things in the same project (I'll even see them deny the behavior or just respond "works for me" closes issue before opener can respond) I don't know how to stop caring because these things directly affect me and are slowing me down. I mean how fucking hard is it to use sort? It's not even one line! What the fuck is wrong with us?

mistrial9 2y ago
... it is not "us" .. there is a collection of roles that each interact to produce products to market or releases. Add some game-theory to the thinking on that?
- godelski 2y ago
  "Us" can mean different things depending on the context. The context here is "programmers" not "shitty programmers" (really we can be inclusive with engineers and any makers). Considering that it seems you appear to understand the context I'm a bit confused at the comment. You don't have to inject yourself if you're not in the referred to group (i.e. maybe I'm not talking about you. I can't know because I don't even know you) I need to stress so much -- especially because how people think about AI and intelligence (my field of research[0]) -- that language is not precise. Language is not thoughts. Sure, many think "out loud" and most people have inner speech, but language (even inner) is compressed. You use language to convey much more complex and abstract concepts in your head to someone who is hopefully trying to make their decompression adapt to uncover the other person's intended meaning. This isn't a Chinese room where you just look in the dictionary (which also shows multiple definitions for anything). I know it's harder with text and disconnected cultures integration, but we must not confuse this and I think it's ignored far too often. Ignoring it seems to just escalate that problems. > Add some game-theory to the thinking on that? And please don't be dismissive by hand waving. I'm sure you understand game theory. Which would mean you understand what a complex problem this is to actually model (to a degree I doubt anyone could to a good degree of accuracy). That you understand perturbation theory and chaos theory and how they are critical to modeling such a process meaning you only get probability distribution as results. [0] I add this context because it decreases the amount of people that feel the need to nerdsplain things to me that they don't research.
linotype 2y ago
I use an Apple TV. It’s more expensive than Google and Amazon’s offerings, but fast as hell and gets better with time.
- 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

GeoAtreides 2y ago

> 10 steps negotiating with obscure Pune team that I need to chase 10x why are you doing the chasing? unless you're the project manager, comment "blocked by obscure pune team" on the ticket and move on

malfist 2y ago
In my experience, PMs rarely do the chasing down for you. Most of them ask why you're still blocked and if you've done anything about it. Even if they do do something to chase them down, you're still on the hook for the deadlines.
- GeoAtreides 2y ago
  so you're saying PMs are not doing their job? and then you have to do the actual project managing? not ideal for you, very cushy job for them.
  - intelVISA 2y ago
    It's a popular grifter role for a reason.
    - malfist 2y ago
      The PM I work with most of the time introduced himself as "the next Elon Musk", so your assessment fits
dragon-hn 2y ago
This is an unfortunate attitude. The current state of things in our industry is a reflection of this “not my job” way of doing things.
- GeoAtreides 2y ago
  We can call it job specialisation. I don't do project managing, I do coding. Not my business to coordinate everyone, my job is to write code.