4 ms·

I want to be nice, but there is "write bad code" stupid, and then there is "pay for your business travel yourself" stupid. How did his manager never pull him as

I want to be nice, but there is "write bad code" stupid, and then there is "pay for your business travel yourself" stupid. How did his manager never pull him aside and tell him to stop it?

phil21 2y ago
It really depends on your background. I grew up poor and while I never quite was at his level of self-immolation, I also would book (on the company dime at least!) the cheapest possible options at my own personal expense. Staying in a slightly more expensive hotel to be closer and more convenient simply was not an option that ever crossed my mind due to my upbringing and relationship with money. Luckily I had great people I worked with who helped show me what was acceptable and not rather early. I still find myself doing this now even at an executive level 25 years into my career. I suspect I will be battling this mindset the rest of my life. It’s self limiting and puts you at a significant disadvantage off then at compared to your peers in many early career situations - but the mindset does come in handy once in a while in the course of running a business. When you get your first “real” job these things are not obvious because below a certain level you are expected to show up on time and at location at your own personal expense.
- sushid 2y ago
  Your case is at least somewhat more reasonable. You were just being frugal with company funds, which can be reasonable depending on the company size, market, etc. The OP was literally paying for business trips out of pocket. That is truly insane.
  - gk1 2y ago
    I think you missed their point. Their frugality went beyond what the company size/stage/etc necessitated, and it's because of their upbringing. I'm the OP and I can relate. I grew up both poor and was an immigrant. My parents took up blue-collar jobs and were themselves trying to understand how things work in this country. I grew up in a community of immigrants so all my friends were in the same boat. If you don't have anyone in your life who goes on business trips or tells you about their white-collar job and how things work, how are you supposed to know? Well, through your own experience! Which unfortunately involves doing something stupid at first and learning a lesson from it.
- marcellus23 2y ago
  > I also would book (on the company dime at least!) the cheapest possible options at my own personal expense This contradicts itself — you paid for it or your company did?
  - zck 2y ago
    I think they meant non-monetary personal expense. As in "I'll book the crappy motel that requires me to take the subway for 45 minutes, rather than spend an extra $25/night for the lovely hotel that's right next to where I need to go".
    - phil21 2y ago
      Yep this. I hastily typed that on my phone right before a meeting. Thanks for clarifying for me!
gk1 2y ago
No offense taken. :) Steve is extremely nice and probably didn't want to push the issue. Also, their monthly fee to me made the travel cost insignificant, and he knew that. In my defense, this stuff just isn't taught anywhere. That day I was one of the 10,000 people who learned something that "everyone knows." (https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/) There's another story where I worked for the Dept of Defense and on my first work trip I stayed in a run-down Howard Johnson motel in the outskirts of Mobile, Alabama, because I thought we were supposed to book the cheapest possible lodging. Turns out the policy was we had to book the cheapest rental car, but for hotels we could just get the standard government rate at any hotel chain like Marriott or Hilton. So while my coworkers cozied up on 500-threadcount sheets I watched a car get repossessed outside my window while the front desk receptionist was stealing my card on file. :)

I want to be nice, but there is "write bad code" stupid, and then there is "pay for your business travel yourself" stupid. How did his manager never pull him aside and tell him to stop it?

phil21 2y ago

It really depends on your background. I grew up poor and while I never quite was at his level of self-immolation, I also would book (on the company dime at least!) the cheapest possible options at my own personal expense. Staying in a slightly more expensive hotel to be closer and more convenient simply was not an option that ever crossed my mind due to my upbringing and relationship with money. Luckily I had great people I worked with who helped show me what was acceptable and not rather early. I still find myself doing this now even at an executive level 25 years into my career. I suspect I will be battling this mindset the rest of my life. It’s self limiting and puts you at a significant disadvantage off then at compared to your peers in many early career situations - but the mindset does come in handy once in a while in the course of running a business. When you get your first “real” job these things are not obvious because below a certain level you are expected to show up on time and at location at your own personal expense.

sushid 2y ago
Your case is at least somewhat more reasonable. You were just being frugal with company funds, which can be reasonable depending on the company size, market, etc. The OP was literally paying for business trips out of pocket. That is truly insane.
- gk1 2y ago
  I think you missed their point. Their frugality went beyond what the company size/stage/etc necessitated, and it's because of their upbringing. I'm the OP and I can relate. I grew up both poor and was an immigrant. My parents took up blue-collar jobs and were themselves trying to understand how things work in this country. I grew up in a community of immigrants so all my friends were in the same boat. If you don't have anyone in your life who goes on business trips or tells you about their white-collar job and how things work, how are you supposed to know? Well, through your own experience! Which unfortunately involves doing something stupid at first and learning a lesson from it.
marcellus23 2y ago
> I also would book (on the company dime at least!) the cheapest possible options at my own personal expense This contradicts itself — you paid for it or your company did?
- zck 2y ago
  I think they meant non-monetary personal expense. As in "I'll book the crappy motel that requires me to take the subway for 45 minutes, rather than spend an extra $25/night for the lovely hotel that's right next to where I need to go".
  - phil21 2y ago
    Yep this. I hastily typed that on my phone right before a meeting. Thanks for clarifying for me!

gk1 2y ago

No offense taken. :) Steve is extremely nice and probably didn't want to push the issue. Also, their monthly fee to me made the travel cost insignificant, and he knew that. In my defense, this stuff just isn't taught anywhere. That day I was one of the 10,000 people who learned something that "everyone knows." (https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/) There's another story where I worked for the Dept of Defense and on my first work trip I stayed in a run-down Howard Johnson motel in the outskirts of Mobile, Alabama, because I thought we were supposed to book the cheapest possible lodging. Turns out the policy was we had to book the cheapest rental car, but for hotels we could just get the standard government rate at any hotel chain like Marriott or Hilton. So while my coworkers cozied up on 500-threadcount sheets I watched a car get repossessed outside my window while the front desk receptionist was stealing my card on file. :)