4 ms·

I was hoping this advice would have come from a real worker who has to worry about rents/mortgages, bills, health insurance etc etc, instead I see that the arti

I was hoping this advice would have come from a real worker who has to worry about rents/mortgages, bills, health insurance etc etc, instead I see that the article was written by a very cocooned Nobel-laureate writer which puts it in another perspective, i.e. the perspective of people who don't care about bills, mortgage/rents, health insurance and the like. As such, their advice on whatever work is meant to "mean" is worth close to zero for us, normal people.

quonn 2y ago
Sure, but many people - especially many (most?) on this site - could probably live in about 20% of the space they live in and drive a cheaper car an so on and the rent/mortgage/bills will then at best only make up 20% of their income. In other words, there is the hedonistic treadmill and then there are human emotions and these are real for you, me and for a Nobel-laureate writer.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
matthewhammond 2y ago
Geez you think Toni Morrison lived a cocooned and privileged life because she won the Nobel at age 62, and she never had any challenges like those you mention (and much, much more) in her life leading up to that that she can draw on? Get a grip, honestly
- Joeboy 2y ago
  (removed comment as it's been uncharitably misread and I don't have time to argue about it)
  - rramadass 2y ago
    By your logic, nobody who has achieved something should ever give advice since their current status invalidates all the hardship they had to endure to get there. She was a writer and hence was trying to make a point in a forceful way which is relevant to all of us today since we seem to have lost sight of the fact that we should "Work to Live" and not "Live to Work". This is sound advice since it is the Family Support that is crucial to weather/overcome all difficulties in life.
    - yard2010 2y ago
      Not OP and I don't 100% agree with the grandparent post, but work to live is a privilege. Do it consistently when you can't afford or be entitled to it, find yourself out.
      - rramadass 2y ago
        > work to live is a privilege I have seen extreme poverty (in India) and materialistic decadence both in the US and India and can assure you that while it is true in some contexts it is false in many others. This is why in India (and i am sure in many other poorer countries) you have various govt. schemes like UBI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_in_Indi...), UHC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_India) etc. to make sure that "Live to Work" does not become the norm. In the context of Morrison's advice, she is not talking about the above but a far more fundamental mindset i.e. keep your Life and Job separate in your head and realize that your Real Life is with your Family/Friends/Society.
- rramadass 2y ago
  Exactly! I was about to respond with something much harsher but you have put it quite well.
defrost 2y ago
Cocooned, sure: When Morrison was about two years old, her family's landlord set fire to the house in which they lived, while they were home, because her parents could not afford to pay rent. that's happened to all of us, right?
- ptsneves 2y ago
  I read this, and yesterday I read about Malcolm X shooting and the lives of blacks in America (and i fear elsewhere), and i get so sad that people can be so mean to another fellow human being for being of a different, skin color or genetic origin? Come on! Why would you go out of the way to burn somebody's house down, or beat up a person so bad the person get permanent injury[1]? I dont even try to understand how the state ignores the law breaking, states are complex, but a common man doing such things? I can't understand how a person looks in the mirror and not think of himself as a wretch and a demon(?). I am from Portugal and I am sorry we lost ultramarine territories because i consider the peoples from Angola, Guinea and Mozambique as kindred. But we definitely deserved to lose them with prejudice. What was done to those citizens has no name, and as such I condone their right to arm against their oppressors the same as I would if any other citizen was singled out like they were. I also think all ex-Portuguese peoples(except Brazil) should have the right to claim Portuguese citizenship if they wish to. All this to say I am very scarred of these events, because if they were so prevalent, it must be very easy to become a monster. I am just ignorant of how, yet. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X?useskin=vector#Hinton_Johnson_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X?useskin=vector#Hinto...
  - defrost 2y ago
    There's been a lot of unjustified poor behaviour in history, some relatively recent history. Jill¹, who I've known since we were both quite young, is barely a generation removed from the Australian frontier wars, massacres for a century+ prior to 1930², something her parents lived through. ¹ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UKu3bCbFck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UKu3bCbFck ² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coniston_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coniston_massacre ( two geographically seperate references, I know .. it's to carry a point not to join a specific person to a specific event, which could be done )
rramadass 2y ago
You are way way off base here as others have also pointed out : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toni_Morrison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toni_Morrison Toni Morrison has had a far more difficult life than most of us normal people here who did not have to worry about whether they will be lynched, whether whatever little they had will be taken away from them, whether they would have a job and be able to feed themselves etc. She most definitely was not born with a "silver spoon in her mouth". Her name/fame/money/etc. which you seem to be sour about came much much later in life after she had survived all of the above with her integrity as a Human Being still intact. Do not belittle other people's achievements because you have some weird notions which almost seem racist in this context since nobody can see any logical reason for your bias.
- atypicaluser 2y ago
  While I agree with you regarding Toni Morrison, I'm not sure where you're going with the 'almost seem racist in this context' remark. When I read the article, I read the article, immediately jumping past the headline and lead graphic, not bothering to check who wrote the article before coming back here to read the comments. I only learned of Ms. Morrison's authorship from your top comment. Outside the story's impression of poverty versus wealth in the 1940's, and without knowing who the author is, what gave you the idea this article had anything to do with race? Or that the person's notions you commented on 'almost seem racist'?
  - rramadass 2y ago
    While the article does not talk overtly about racial topics; the narrative of a young girl "scrubbing floors" in a "beautiful house" etc. were suggestive and on checking the author's name it became clear. Toni Morrison had been quite fearless and outspoken in her writings about race relations and other topics (see https://time.com/6143127/toni-morrison-book-bans/ https://time.com/6143127/toni-morrison-book-bans/) and hence had courted her fair share of controversy. But for the commentator to suggest that she had a "cocooned" easy life thus invalidating her advice was plainly ludicrous and could only be interpreted as "almost seem racist in this context" since there was no logical reason for this bias. From the article linked to above; Her books do not sugarcoat or use euphemisms. And that is actually what people have trouble with. Morrison books tend to be targeted because she is unrelenting in her belief that the very particular experiences of Black people are incredibly universal. Blackness is the center of the universe for her and for her readers, or for her imagined reader. And that is inappropriate or inadequate or unreasonable or unimaginable for some people.
0xEF 2y ago
Hi there! I am the person you are talking about, what with all the worry about making rent each month, bills, various health issues even, all while trying to be a role model for my son, who is just starting adulthood. I can say that I emphatically agree with the author, regardless of her bavkground.

quonn 2y ago

Sure, but many people - especially many (most?) on this site - could probably live in about 20% of the space they live in and drive a cheaper car an so on and the rent/mortgage/bills will then at best only make up 20% of their income. In other words, there is the hedonistic treadmill and then there are human emotions and these are real for you, me and for a Nobel-laureate writer.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

matthewhammond 2y ago

Geez you think Toni Morrison lived a cocooned and privileged life because she won the Nobel at age 62, and she never had any challenges like those you mention (and much, much more) in her life leading up to that that she can draw on? Get a grip, honestly

Joeboy 2y ago
(removed comment as it's been uncharitably misread and I don't have time to argue about it)
- rramadass 2y ago
  By your logic, nobody who has achieved something should ever give advice since their current status invalidates all the hardship they had to endure to get there. She was a writer and hence was trying to make a point in a forceful way which is relevant to all of us today since we seem to have lost sight of the fact that we should "Work to Live" and not "Live to Work". This is sound advice since it is the Family Support that is crucial to weather/overcome all difficulties in life.
  - yard2010 2y ago
    Not OP and I don't 100% agree with the grandparent post, but work to live is a privilege. Do it consistently when you can't afford or be entitled to it, find yourself out.
    - rramadass 2y ago
      > work to live is a privilege I have seen extreme poverty (in India) and materialistic decadence both in the US and India and can assure you that while it is true in some contexts it is false in many others. This is why in India (and i am sure in many other poorer countries) you have various govt. schemes like UBI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_basic_income_in_Indi...), UHC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_India) etc. to make sure that "Live to Work" does not become the norm. In the context of Morrison's advice, she is not talking about the above but a far more fundamental mindset i.e. keep your Life and Job separate in your head and realize that your Real Life is with your Family/Friends/Society.
rramadass 2y ago
Exactly! I was about to respond with something much harsher but you have put it quite well.

defrost 2y ago

Cocooned, sure: When Morrison was about two years old, her family's landlord set fire to the house in which they lived, while they were home, because her parents could not afford to pay rent. that's happened to all of us, right?

ptsneves 2y ago
I read this, and yesterday I read about Malcolm X shooting and the lives of blacks in America (and i fear elsewhere), and i get so sad that people can be so mean to another fellow human being for being of a different, skin color or genetic origin? Come on! Why would you go out of the way to burn somebody's house down, or beat up a person so bad the person get permanent injury[1]? I dont even try to understand how the state ignores the law breaking, states are complex, but a common man doing such things? I can't understand how a person looks in the mirror and not think of himself as a wretch and a demon(?). I am from Portugal and I am sorry we lost ultramarine territories because i consider the peoples from Angola, Guinea and Mozambique as kindred. But we definitely deserved to lose them with prejudice. What was done to those citizens has no name, and as such I condone their right to arm against their oppressors the same as I would if any other citizen was singled out like they were. I also think all ex-Portuguese peoples(except Brazil) should have the right to claim Portuguese citizenship if they wish to. All this to say I am very scarred of these events, because if they were so prevalent, it must be very easy to become a monster. I am just ignorant of how, yet. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X?useskin=vector#Hinton_Johnson_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X?useskin=vector#Hinto...
- defrost 2y ago
  There's been a lot of unjustified poor behaviour in history, some relatively recent history. Jill¹, who I've known since we were both quite young, is barely a generation removed from the Australian frontier wars, massacres for a century+ prior to 1930², something her parents lived through. ¹ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UKu3bCbFck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UKu3bCbFck ² https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coniston_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coniston_massacre ( two geographically seperate references, I know .. it's to carry a point not to join a specific person to a specific event, which could be done )

rramadass 2y ago

You are way way off base here as others have also pointed out : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toni_Morrison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toni_Morrison Toni Morrison has had a far more difficult life than most of us normal people here who did not have to worry about whether they will be lynched, whether whatever little they had will be taken away from them, whether they would have a job and be able to feed themselves etc. She most definitely was not born with a "silver spoon in her mouth". Her name/fame/money/etc. which you seem to be sour about came much much later in life after she had survived all of the above with her integrity as a Human Being still intact. Do not belittle other people's achievements because you have some weird notions which almost seem racist in this context since nobody can see any logical reason for your bias.

atypicaluser 2y ago
While I agree with you regarding Toni Morrison, I'm not sure where you're going with the 'almost seem racist in this context' remark. When I read the article, I read the article, immediately jumping past the headline and lead graphic, not bothering to check who wrote the article before coming back here to read the comments. I only learned of Ms. Morrison's authorship from your top comment. Outside the story's impression of poverty versus wealth in the 1940's, and without knowing who the author is, what gave you the idea this article had anything to do with race? Or that the person's notions you commented on 'almost seem racist'?
- rramadass 2y ago
  While the article does not talk overtly about racial topics; the narrative of a young girl "scrubbing floors" in a "beautiful house" etc. were suggestive and on checking the author's name it became clear. Toni Morrison had been quite fearless and outspoken in her writings about race relations and other topics (see https://time.com/6143127/toni-morrison-book-bans/ https://time.com/6143127/toni-morrison-book-bans/) and hence had courted her fair share of controversy. But for the commentator to suggest that she had a "cocooned" easy life thus invalidating her advice was plainly ludicrous and could only be interpreted as "almost seem racist in this context" since there was no logical reason for this bias. From the article linked to above; Her books do not sugarcoat or use euphemisms. And that is actually what people have trouble with. Morrison books tend to be targeted because she is unrelenting in her belief that the very particular experiences of Black people are incredibly universal. Blackness is the center of the universe for her and for her readers, or for her imagined reader. And that is inappropriate or inadequate or unreasonable or unimaginable for some people.

0xEF 2y ago

Hi there! I am the person you are talking about, what with all the worry about making rent each month, bills, various health issues even, all while trying to be a role model for my son, who is just starting adulthood. I can say that I emphatically agree with the author, regardless of her bavkground.