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I had a short consulting gig in Istanbul once. The meeting room that became my temporary office was right next to their dev department. To my surprise, it was a

I had a short consulting gig in Istanbul once. The meeting room that became my temporary office was right next to their dev department. To my surprise, it was almost entirely comprised by women, including the department manager. I wonder if that was a fluke and if it wasn't, what is the reason why computer science is dominated by men in our culture.

EnigmaFlare 2y ago
Probably the Nordic gender equality paradox. Or in short - women generally don't like working with computers as much as men but will tolerate it if they have to.
defrost 2y ago
Turkey over the decades has been a mixed bag of misogyny, particularly when viewed by outsiders. Computer science being female orientated is traditionally consistent; women are expected to work or be ornaments (or both) and carting water, weaving, tallying stock, and desk work is "womens work" Vs the machismo pick swinging, gun carrying, construction building "mens work". Having computer science seen as "desk work" is useful for women in such cultures, it's an interesting income stream in a bubble free from hassle. Boundaries blur, of course, and exceptions are all over - but that's a rough guide. Not to mention strong man patriarchies can also hide a core matriarchy .. and yet not embrace equality for all women, just for the few mothers that earned it and outlived their husbands.
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  In ancient Rome, widows and orphans were perhaps the only people (other than the patriarchs themselves) who were outside someone else's patriarchal clan, and hence more, rather than less, financially independent. By Elizabeth Barber's rules for traditional women's work during the first 20,000 years: (a) can it be done at home (or, in a pinch, with kids in tow), and (b) is it easily interruptible (due to emergencies among aforementioned kids), computer science is defo traditionally consistent.
  - defrost 2y ago
    It includes painting and at first I could have sworn you were referring to an unknown (to myself) work by https://www.aasd.com.au/artist/2026-elizabeth-blair-barber/ https://www.aasd.com.au/artist/2026-elizabeth-blair-barber/ , instead it's a book by another I'll chase up. In the telling of history it's often the case, for a good while at least, that the only thing less seen than a woman is a woman's black servant; Sam Isaacs eventually made the pages: https://tracesmagazine.com.au/2013/11/saving-grace-western-australias-shipwreck-rescuer-grace-bussell/ https://tracesmagazine.com.au/2013/11/saving-grace-western-a...
    - 082349872349872 2y ago
      also 1860s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympia_(Manet)#Critical_reaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympia_(Manet)#Critical_react...
    - 082349872349872 2y ago
      > Grace Bussell rode down that cliff I think I saw the 1982 movie with that scene, but for some reason they'd gender-swapped the heroine? And she raced him down the cliffside like a torrent down its bed, While victims in the surf watched in very fear. She sent the red stones flying, but the old grey kept his feet, He cleared the tangled bushes in his stride, And the girl from Marg'ret River never shifted in her seat - It was grand to see that western horseman ride. (well, at least that's how it went if one believes the Inquirer and Commercial News account over Isaacs', anyway: https://mrdhs.com.au/the-isaacs-family/ https://mrdhs.com.au/the-isaacs-family/ )

EnigmaFlare 2y ago

Probably the Nordic gender equality paradox. Or in short - women generally don't like working with computers as much as men but will tolerate it if they have to.

defrost 2y ago

Turkey over the decades has been a mixed bag of misogyny, particularly when viewed by outsiders. Computer science being female orientated is traditionally consistent; women are expected to work or be ornaments (or both) and carting water, weaving, tallying stock, and desk work is "womens work" Vs the machismo pick swinging, gun carrying, construction building "mens work". Having computer science seen as "desk work" is useful for women in such cultures, it's an interesting income stream in a bubble free from hassle. Boundaries blur, of course, and exceptions are all over - but that's a rough guide. Not to mention strong man patriarchies can also hide a core matriarchy .. and yet not embrace equality for all women, just for the few mothers that earned it and outlived their husbands.

082349872349872 2y ago
In ancient Rome, widows and orphans were perhaps the only people (other than the patriarchs themselves) who were outside someone else's patriarchal clan, and hence more, rather than less, financially independent. By Elizabeth Barber's rules for traditional women's work during the first 20,000 years: (a) can it be done at home (or, in a pinch, with kids in tow), and (b) is it easily interruptible (due to emergencies among aforementioned kids), computer science is defo traditionally consistent.
- defrost 2y ago
  It includes painting and at first I could have sworn you were referring to an unknown (to myself) work by https://www.aasd.com.au/artist/2026-elizabeth-blair-barber/ https://www.aasd.com.au/artist/2026-elizabeth-blair-barber/ , instead it's a book by another I'll chase up. In the telling of history it's often the case, for a good while at least, that the only thing less seen than a woman is a woman's black servant; Sam Isaacs eventually made the pages: https://tracesmagazine.com.au/2013/11/saving-grace-western-australias-shipwreck-rescuer-grace-bussell/ https://tracesmagazine.com.au/2013/11/saving-grace-western-a...
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    also 1860s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympia_(Manet)#Critical_reaction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympia_(Manet)#Critical_react...
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    > Grace Bussell rode down that cliff I think I saw the 1982 movie with that scene, but for some reason they'd gender-swapped the heroine? And she raced him down the cliffside like a torrent down its bed, While victims in the surf watched in very fear. She sent the red stones flying, but the old grey kept his feet, He cleared the tangled bushes in his stride, And the girl from Marg'ret River never shifted in her seat - It was grand to see that western horseman ride. (well, at least that's how it went if one believes the Inquirer and Commercial News account over Isaacs', anyway: https://mrdhs.com.au/the-isaacs-family/ https://mrdhs.com.au/the-isaacs-family/ )