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I've heard the argument that an engineer who wants to go should be let go. They won't be motivated anymore even if you pay them more to stay. Not sure if that's

by leros 2y ago

I've heard the argument that an engineer who wants to go should be let go. They won't be motivated anymore even if you pay them more to stay. Not sure if that's valid.

bumby 2y ago
I have a feeling it probably depends on the personality. People who are high on the conscientiousness scale will probably have a greater feeling of duty to still perform whereas people low on the agreeableness spectrum may coast out of spite.
jillesvangurp 2y ago
Depends. It helps to understand why they want to go to begin with. Basically, if you are having regular one on ones with your people on their ambitions, career development, etc. and they appear to be happy, them leaving would be a surprise. But the reality is that some people leave after a certain amount of frustration has been building up for a while and they aren't being listened to. That can be with a lack of promotion; or career paths that are being blocked because the company looks outside the own organization for filling roles without even thinking to promote people. Weak leadership/management can be very damaging. The whole Peter principle is a thing. If you get stuck below some incompetent burned out leadership, the best move is to just move sideways. Companies are bad at fixing themselves. The symptom is usually high staff turnover. Throwing more money at the problem doesn't necessarily fix anything if the problem is deeply entrenched management layers protecting themselves with that money instead of using it to replace themselves with better people. I used to have a great manager. We jokingly called him the cleaner because his career path was literally being parachuted into teams to fix them. All he did was listen to his team when he came in and then not shying away from doing surgical fixes. Including removing people or moving them sideways, promoting people, and just not being shy towards management about what needed fixing and why. He was a busy man. Lots of dysfunctional teams in that company and senior management had figured out he was good at this stuff. So he'd swoop in with the backing of management and then straighten things out and bruising some egos in the process. And of course the reality is that we are in a job market with record high employment. Job security has relatively low value and is mostly an illusion. Especially if you are good at what you do. People that are insecure put up with a lot of crap. But a lot of jobs in tech are the opposite. This manager ultimately moved sideways as well. Because he couldn't fix the mess above him.
nly 2y ago
Sometimes people just need more money In the UK, having a family often results in one partner quiting work because they earn less after tax than the cost of daycare. Likewise interest rates on mortgages (which aren't fixed long term in the UK, unlike the US) have tripled and inflation has risen 20-25% over the last 3 years Adopting this policy of "fire em if they ask for more" is so evil.
creesch 2y ago
Like most simple arguments that make sense on the surface, reality is more complex. In some cases, this might be true, certainly if the engineer wants to go because of other reasons than pay. I feel like this argument might be used by managers or HR in companies who know that their company isn't the greatest work environment.

by leros 2y ago

I've heard the argument that an engineer who wants to go should be let go. They won't be motivated anymore even if you pay them more to stay. Not sure if that's valid.

bumby 2y ago

I have a feeling it probably depends on the personality. People who are high on the conscientiousness scale will probably have a greater feeling of duty to still perform whereas people low on the agreeableness spectrum may coast out of spite.

jillesvangurp 2y ago

Depends. It helps to understand why they want to go to begin with. Basically, if you are having regular one on ones with your people on their ambitions, career development, etc. and they appear to be happy, them leaving would be a surprise. But the reality is that some people leave after a certain amount of frustration has been building up for a while and they aren't being listened to. That can be with a lack of promotion; or career paths that are being blocked because the company looks outside the own organization for filling roles without even thinking to promote people. Weak leadership/management can be very damaging. The whole Peter principle is a thing. If you get stuck below some incompetent burned out leadership, the best move is to just move sideways. Companies are bad at fixing themselves. The symptom is usually high staff turnover. Throwing more money at the problem doesn't necessarily fix anything if the problem is deeply entrenched management layers protecting themselves with that money instead of using it to replace themselves with better people. I used to have a great manager. We jokingly called him the cleaner because his career path was literally being parachuted into teams to fix them. All he did was listen to his team when he came in and then not shying away from doing surgical fixes. Including removing people or moving them sideways, promoting people, and just not being shy towards management about what needed fixing and why. He was a busy man. Lots of dysfunctional teams in that company and senior management had figured out he was good at this stuff. So he'd swoop in with the backing of management and then straighten things out and bruising some egos in the process. And of course the reality is that we are in a job market with record high employment. Job security has relatively low value and is mostly an illusion. Especially if you are good at what you do. People that are insecure put up with a lot of crap. But a lot of jobs in tech are the opposite. This manager ultimately moved sideways as well. Because he couldn't fix the mess above him.

nly 2y ago

Sometimes people just need more money In the UK, having a family often results in one partner quiting work because they earn less after tax than the cost of daycare. Likewise interest rates on mortgages (which aren't fixed long term in the UK, unlike the US) have tripled and inflation has risen 20-25% over the last 3 years Adopting this policy of "fire em if they ask for more" is so evil.

creesch 2y ago

Like most simple arguments that make sense on the surface, reality is more complex. In some cases, this might be true, certainly if the engineer wants to go because of other reasons than pay. I feel like this argument might be used by managers or HR in companies who know that their company isn't the greatest work environment.